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  #11  
Old 06-23-2009, 06:36 AM
whirlwind
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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
We do not become Israel.

That's a very unbiblical statement in light of the entire old testament.
I must disagree for...it is quite Biblical. As you know, Israel consists of twelve tribes...ten of which our Father scattered. They are today's Christians. However, whether or not we are of the lineage of Israel is no longer the point for....whether we are of Israel or are Gentile upon belief in Him we are adopted.
Romans 9:4-5 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concedrning the flesh Christ came, Who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Epheisans 1:4-5 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2009, 07:07 AM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
Sabbath means rest....Christ is our Sabbath, He is our Rest. We keep Him everyday.

Israel is the family of God....His chosen. By belief in Him we are adopted into the family...we become Israel.
Israel is a God given name to Jacob.

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Genesis 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

The Children of Israel became a nation of God.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
2 Samuel 7:23 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?

Israel is still Israel even today. Gentile is still Gentile even of today. Filipino is still Filipino of today. But since I've been "born again", I became member of the Family of God (not an Israelite) by virtue of John 1:12.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Praise the Lord!!!
  #13  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:07 AM
whirlwind
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Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Israel is a God given name to Jacob.

The Children of Israel became a nation of God.
And....we are a "nation of God."
Quote:
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And...we are if we include ourselves in those of the "first resurrection."

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Quote:
2 Samuel 7:23 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?
We are His people. We are redeemed to Him. We carry His name....Christian. We are redeemed from Egypt (symbolic of the world and it's temptations) and from all nations and false religion.


Quote:
Israel is still Israel even today. Gentile is still Gentile even of today. Filipino is still Filipino of today. But since I've been "born again", I became member of the Family of God (not an Israelite) by virtue of John 1:12.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Praise the Lord!!!

Yes, Israel is still Israel. Israel is His family.....His chosen, all of them/us.

Israel means....the prince that prevails with God and...it is The Kingdom.
  #14  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:50 AM
CKG CKG is offline
 
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Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
I must disagree for...it is quite Biblical. As you know, Israel consists of twelve tribes...ten of which our Father scattered. They are today's Christians. However, whether or not we are of the lineage of Israel is no longer the point for....whether we are of Israel or are Gentile upon belief in Him we are adopted.
Romans 9:4-5 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concedrning the flesh Christ came, Who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Epheisans 1:4-5 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Romans 9:3-5 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever.
Note the Israelites of Romans 9:4 are called by Paul "my kinsmen according to the flesh".
Philippians 3:4-5 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Epheisans 1:4-5 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
This verse says nothing about being adopted into the "family of Israel". When I got saved I was baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27) and am now "of the household of God (Ephesians 2:19), but my adoption is future.
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
  #15  
Old 06-23-2009, 11:58 AM
whirlwind
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Originally Posted by CKG View Post
Romans 9:3-5 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever.
Note the Israelites of Romans 9:4 are called by Paul "my kinsmen according to the flesh".


As they should be...Paul being of the tribe of Benjamin they were of his flesh. But, the adoption is to be adopted to them...not them to gentiles.

Quote:
Philippians 3:4-5 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Epheisans 1:4-5 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
This verse says nothing about being adopted into the "family of Israel". When I got saved I was baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27) and am now "of the household of God (Ephesians 2:19), but my adoption is future.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye ae no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

And is His household those of Islam, those that worship Buddah, Hindus, or other Gentiles? Of course not....you are now of His family, His household. You have been adopted. Why do you believe it is future? You mention [3:27]but I ask you to read the next few verses.....
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male and female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
They don't become the seed of Gentiles....Gentiles become Abraham's seed and, as adopted children into their family....heirs according to the promise.

Quote:
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

That "adoption" isn't as "heirs to the promise" but the adoption of our bodies. The change of [1 Corinthians 15:52] when "we shall all be changed."
  #16  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:12 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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Whirlwind,

Since you responded to my post, I would like to know what background you come from, brother or sister. I have gotten OUT of a very rigid false doctrinal church that wrongly taught that WE (the Church) are "spiritual Israel." Once I studied the Bible on my own - i.e. APART from the church's booklets, books and other materials - I came to know the TRUTH from the King James Bible.... and it was in marked contrast to what I had wrongly learned.

It really doesn't matter which CHURCH it is that is teaching wrong doctrine, since they all go about it in much the same way - and they all lead gullible new "babes in Christ" astray. This is to their utter shame.

After I left that church, I had to go through a process of DE-programming, by filling my mind with the TRUTH, thereby pushing out all FALSE doctrine, since it was replaced with the TRUTH. It wasn't an easy transition. However, now I am FREE! I am no longer under that burdensome LAW of the Israelites, because I no longer view myself as "spiritual Israel." Once my mind was open to the truth, God began to spiritually bless my life, with grace and knowledge.

I have successfully brought an atheist and a Hindu to Christ, amongst others. Now I don't say this for any accolades: ALL GLORY AND HONOR BELONGS TO THE LORD!!! That former Hindu (in India) may bring his entire family and the community around him to Christ also. It is immensely humbling. It is not I who lives, but CHRIST in me! Without Him, I am NOTHING and can do NOTHING! I had to realize how my own understanding of the Bible and my own understanding of the revealed doctrine of the apostle Paul was faulty and full of error, having been corrupted by this false church - before the Lord was able to use me in anything. I can clearly state that I was WORTHLESS, as I was. But now (as Paul was fond of saying!) I am BOUGHT WITH A PRICE: the precious blood of Christ. And I will do everything that Christ calls me to do to share that joyous fact.

I sincerely hope that you seek TRUTH. Only then can your mind be opened to it. Otherwise, it is like seeing TRUTH through a filter of tar. One has to be washed with the blood of Christ first and renewed. This is an INDIVIDUAL event. It is not one that happens through a church. It happens in a personal relationship with Christ.

I did not KNOW Christ - I only knew OF Him, from what the church I was involved in taught me.

My sincere wish and prayer is that you will come to KNOW Christ, as I did.

Blessings and Peace to you as you seek the TRUTH,

Jassy
  #17  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:24 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
Whirlwind,

Since you responded to my post, I would like to know what background you come from, brother or sister. I have gotten OUT of a very rigid false doctrinal church that wrongly taught that WE (the Church) are "spiritual Israel." Once I studied the Bible on my own - i.e. APART from the church's booklets, books and other materials - I came to know the TRUTH from the King James Bible.... and it was in marked contrast to what I had wrongly learned.

It really doesn't matter which CHURCH it is that is teaching wrong doctrine, since they all go about it in much the same way - and they all lead gullible new "babes in Christ" astray. This is to their utter shame.

After I left that church, I had to go through a process of DE-programming, by filling my mind with the TRUTH, thereby pushing out all FALSE doctrine, since it was replaced with the TRUTH. It wasn't an easy transition. However, now I am FREE! I am no longer under that burdensome LAW of the Israelites, because I no longer view myself as "spiritual Israel." Once my mind was open to the truth, God began to spiritually bless my life, with grace and knowledge.

I have successfully brought an atheist and a Hindu to Christ, amongst others. Now I don't say this for any accolades: ALL GLORY AND HONOR BELONGS TO THE LORD!!! That former Hindu (in India) may bring his entire family and the community around him to Christ also. It is immensely humbling. It is not I who lives, but CHRIST in me! Without Him, I am NOTHING and can do NOTHING! I had to realize how my own understanding of the Bible and my own understanding of the revealed doctrine of the apostle Paul was faulty and full of error, having been corrupted by this false church - before the Lord was able to use me in anything. I can clearly state that I was WORTHLESS, as I was. But now (as Paul was fond of saying!) I am BOUGHT WITH A PRICE: the precious blood of Christ. And I will do everything that Christ calls me to do to share that joyous fact.

I sincerely hope that you seek TRUTH. Only then can your mind be opened to it. Otherwise, it is like seeing TRUTH through a filter of tar. One has to be washed with the blood of Christ first and renewed. This is an INDIVIDUAL event. It is not one that happens through a church. It happens in a personal relationship with Christ.

I did not KNOW Christ - I only knew OF Him, from what the church I was involved in taught me.

My sincere wish and prayer is that you will come to KNOW Christ, as I did.

Blessings and Peace to you as you seek the TRUTH,

Jassy
sister.
  #18  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:57 PM
whirlwind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
Whirlwind,

Since you responded to my post, I would like to know what background you come from, brother or sister. I have gotten OUT of a very rigid false doctrinal church that wrongly taught that WE (the Church) are "spiritual Israel." Once I studied the Bible on my own - i.e. APART from the church's booklets, books and other materials - I came to know the TRUTH from the King James Bible.... and it was in marked contrast to what I had wrongly learned.

It really doesn't matter which CHURCH it is that is teaching wrong doctrine, since they all go about it in much the same way - and they all lead gullible new "babes in Christ" astray. This is to their utter shame.

After I left that church, I had to go through a process of DE-programming, by filling my mind with the TRUTH, thereby pushing out all FALSE doctrine, since it was replaced with the TRUTH. It wasn't an easy transition. However, now I am FREE! I am no longer under that burdensome LAW of the Israelites, because I no longer view myself as "spiritual Israel." Once my mind was open to the truth, God began to spiritually bless my life, with grace and knowledge.

I have successfully brought an atheist and a Hindu to Christ, amongst others. Now I don't say this for any accolades: ALL GLORY AND HONOR BELONGS TO THE LORD!!! That former Hindu (in India) may bring his entire family and the community around him to Christ also. It is immensely humbling. It is not I who lives, but CHRIST in me! Without Him, I am NOTHING and can do NOTHING! I had to realize how my own understanding of the Bible and my own understanding of the revealed doctrine of the apostle Paul was faulty and full of error, having been corrupted by this false church - before the Lord was able to use me in anything. I can clearly state that I was WORTHLESS, as I was. But now (as Paul was fond of saying!) I am BOUGHT WITH A PRICE: the precious blood of Christ. And I will do everything that Christ calls me to do to share that joyous fact.

I sincerely hope that you seek TRUTH. Only then can your mind be opened to it. Otherwise, it is like seeing TRUTH through a filter of tar. One has to be washed with the blood of Christ first and renewed. This is an INDIVIDUAL event. It is not one that happens through a church. It happens in a personal relationship with Christ.

I did not KNOW Christ - I only knew OF Him, from what the church I was involved in taught me.

My sincere wish and prayer is that you will come to KNOW Christ, as I did.

Blessings and Peace to you as you seek the TRUTH,

Jassy

Dear Jassy, you have a sweet and kind spirit. I am glad you are out of a restrictive church....I haven't belonged to a church of any kind for many, many years.

There is no need for you to pray that I will come to KNOW Christ for I do. But, I thank you for the kind thought.
  #19  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:38 PM
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Brother Tony,

Thank you very kindly for your long, informative reply. I hope it isn't plagiarism to use some of what you have said in responding to the Sabbath-keeper. Very helpful! I would like so much to learn evangelism - because I find myself often in the position where it would be very useful. I often meet misled Christians or people that are of other religions who are curious about what I believe. I did take a course on evangelism quite a while back - and don't remember where it was from. I think that some of what they taught, I would have to disagree with now. Can you recommend anything to hone my skills in everyday meetings with people that I need to "evangelize" with. I believe that God calls ALL to do that - and that He gives us certain opportunities to do so. In the past, I've felt ashamed that I didn't have enough confidence to share my faith with someone. It was probably due to still going through a process of "deprogramming" from the "cultist" church I had formerly been involved in. I didn't feel that I had enough Scriptural knowledge. Now I am gaining such knowledge, yet I need more help and advice in evangelizing.

Any suggestions or advice for me?

Jassy
  #20  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
We do not become Israel.

That's a very unbiblical statement in light of the entire old testament.
Brother Luke I agree with you.
 

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