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  #61  
Old 03-10-2009, 05:58 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Not to hijack the thread, but I have always thought that the Dead Sea was created at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Here is a site that claims to have found the actual ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is fascinating, with lots of pictures.


http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/sodom.htm
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  #62  
Old 03-10-2009, 08:55 PM
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I'm not sure about the Lake of Fire location either, but I think we tend to be too limited in our surmisings. I think God already has things sorted out that we can't begin to imagine with our finite minds.
  #63  
Old 03-10-2009, 10:56 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by kittn1 View Post
I'm not sure about the Lake of Fire location either, but I think we tend to be too limited in our surmisings. I think God already has things sorted out that we can't begin to imagine with our finite minds.
  #64  
Old 03-10-2009, 11:23 PM
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It is limited in every aspect as to creation and location because it was created prior to the current 24/7TQ and it's location is outside the TQ as well.
  #65  
Old 03-10-2009, 11:46 PM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Originally Posted by kittn1 View Post
I'm not sure about the Lake of Fire location either, but I think we tend to be too limited in our surmisings. I think God already has things sorted out that we can't begin to imagine with our finite minds.
So would you have us resign our efforts to further study Gods word in hope of finding the answer/s? There is so much treasure in that Book that great men of God have admitted at the end of their lives that they didn't know the half of it. What a statement that is! I'm reminded of 1 Corinthians 2:9-10:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

I enjoy these discussions about the deep things of God with other believers, because we can learn from our limited surmisings, when in contrast to the Bible that is. I believe God's word contains many answers yet undiscovered, and God reveals them to whom He will, usually to them who are closest to Him and are seeking the answers from His word.
  #66  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
More fuel for the flames...

This author says the location of the Lake of Fire is Babylon (Iraq):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/520968/The-Lake-of-Fire

This author says the location of the lake of fire cannot now be known; it may even be a star:
http://www.icr.org/article/lake-fire/

This author says Babylon (Iraq):
http://www.pawcreek.org/articles_pcm...bylon_hell.htm

This author agrees with your assertion:
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d810201.htm
Thank you Bro. Parrish.

I do not believe it is Iraq, Iraq is not in the vicinity of Jerusalem as Isaiah 66 says it is.

I believe if we look in the Scriptures and as Jesus said, he that has ears to hear(and eyes to read) can find where the lake is. I think the "star" theory is a good plot for a horror story, but bad speculation of men.

Babylon is not in the vicinity of Jerusalem.

I'll study the final link, I believe it is The Dead Sea.

Thanks again

Grace and peace

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 03-11-2009 at 12:03 AM. Reason: coerrected misspelling
  #67  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kittn1 View Post
I'm not sure about the Lake of Fire location either, but I think we tend to be too limited in our surmisings. I think God already has things sorted out that we can't begin to imagine with our finite minds.
I think though Laura that to give glory to Him and His Scriptures He will reveal to anyone who honestly inquires as to what is where and how something is(was) done.

The Apostles were gathered together and suddenly Jesus appeared right through the door. Understanding physics we know, since He made the laws of physics, He can bend them to His will, so He walked through the door by throwing the molecules of His Body out of magnetic/atomic phase to the door and passed right through, something we cannot do.

Like the lake of fire, again, not something to argue over or build a theology on, but being in season and out and quick, someone asked me on the street once how Jesus walked through the wall into the room while I was explaining the story of Thomas. That info didn't save that person, it made them more sympathetic to listen and not mock as they did on Mars Hill, and a seed was planted when we gave them the gospel of Christ.

On another plane I do not know and it is nor will be revealed to us the biology of raising a decomposed dead body to life(Lazarus), I only have faith He did.

Grace and peace to you.

Tony
  #68  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian View Post
So would you have us resign our efforts to further study Gods word in hope of finding the answer/s? There is so much treasure in that Book that great men of God have admitted at the end of their lives that they didn't know the half of it. What a statement that is! I'm reminded of 1 Corinthians 2:9-10:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

I enjoy these discussions about the deep things of God with other believers, because we can learn from our limited surmisings, when in contrast to the Bible that is. I believe God's word contains many answers yet undiscovered, and God reveals them to whom He will, usually to them who are closest to Him and are seeking the answers from His word.
Matt, we have the mind of Christ. we don;t know the biology of raising decomposed human bodies to life or how to create matter from nothing, but I believe as you do, He will answer a question IF IT IS FOR HIS GLORY. For His glory He revealed to me the fact the firstborn is always rejected. He had TWO sons, the first being Isreal, the second Christ. He teaches by similitudes. Look at Cain and Abel. Look at Ishmael and Isaac. Look at Jacob and Esau. Then He says, you are my firstborn son, Israel(the nation). The wise men of the east knew a son(Israel)would be rejected and the Second Son the accepted. I believe the antichrist is Judas and will be a Maronite Catholic, half Jew, who will mediate the surrender of Israel to the Gentile nations. I believe the Pope is the False Prophet who will declare him Jesus Christ, and He will sit in the temple as God. Am I correct? I base these on the Scripture, not my own beliefs.

Grace and peace to you, and happy hunting

Tony
  #69  
Old 03-11-2009, 03:11 AM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Yeah, this is what I was about to post. I don't think it will be on the newly created earth since I don't think God would want people bearing their own sins on His new creation.
Well, wherever it is situated will be need to be somewhere within the confines of God's creation (new heavens & earth), for it will be accessible and able to be viewed by "all flesh" (those flesh creatures who will be inhabiting God's creation at that time, us included) according to the Isaiah 66 passage.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Note also that these worship services take place every week (sabbath) and every month (new moon), so there will be familiar time constraints in place in God's new heavens and earth.

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Originally Posted by stephanos View Post
Also, wherever it is it needs to be big enough for death and hell to be cast into it.
How big do you think it needs to be? How much space do billions of human souls, fallen angels & devils take up??

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

Last edited by Kiwi Christian; 03-11-2009 at 03:18 AM.
  #70  
Old 03-11-2009, 06:46 AM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Thank you Bro. Parrish.
...I believe if we look in the Scriptures and as Jesus said, he that has ears to hear(and eyes to read) can find where the lake is. I think the "star" theory is a good plot for a horror story, but bad speculation of men...
Tony
Horror story, well I agree my brother...
Then again, what could be more horrible than billions of people burning for eternity? Does it sound like science fiction to you, well okay brother but have you ever read Ruckman's description of the New Jerusalem, the Great White Throne Judgement or the flying roll of Zech. 5?

The more I look at Isaiah 66, the less I am convinced it is teaching anything about the Dead Sea being the Lake of Fire or its distance from Jerusalem. Please forgive me guys, maybe it's there, but I'm just not seeing it.

Let's face it, Isaiah 66:22 sets the context as the NEW heavens and the NEW earth, if God wants to he can set up a system for all flesh to see them burning on the surface of some NEW version of a sun or sun-like creation, a great burning mass of fire, who knows. The sun---now THAT is one big lake of fire, (maybe 11000°F) and it's close enough that everyone on earth already sees it every day. The rich man in Luke 16 was able to SEE Abraham, even though there was a "GREAT GULF fixed" between them. Even with our primitive video systems we can see things in great detail that are far away right now.

Again, the context of Isaiah 66:22 sets the context as the NEW heavens and the NEW earth, so I'm not sure the passage in Isaiah 66 is teaching anything about the Dead Sea being the Lake of Fire, I guess to me that feels like speculation of men as well. But there is nothing wrong with that of course---after all, we are not discussing doctrinal foundations here.

The first setting of Rev. 20-21 is marked by a spiritual being with a key of the "bottomless pit" and a chain, where Satan is imprisoned. By the time we get to wherever and whatever the Lake of Fire is, (vs. 10-15) this burning thing is able to hold not only the devil and his angels for which it was prepared, it is also going to HOLD "DEATH AND HELL." This does not sound like a lake on earth to me with earthly fire, this seems more unearthly. Besides, the first earth has "passed away." This isn't Kansas anymore. (Rev 21:1, II Peter 3:10)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think in this setting we will be witnessing and dealing with events and locations that are on a different physical and spiritual plane than we can imagine. Try as we might to grasp all this, the reality is that God has prepared some things that have not even entered into our hearts or imagination (1 Corinthians 2:9).

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 03-11-2009 at 07:06 AM.
 

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