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Old 11-12-2008, 11:49 PM
IC@KJV IC@KJV is offline
 
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Question understanding Thee, Thine, Ye, Yea, Doth, etc...

Hello All!

Please bare with me as I have a few questions that might seem like a "piece of cake", and "a no brainer". Thank You

If any one can explain to me how the Thee, Thine, Thou, Ye, Yea, Doth, etc... are used??

How to understand when and where each one is used (singular, plural)???

Thank You in advance, and God Bless.
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:54 AM
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Remember that Bible English is God's use of English, so it is different to just "normal" English. But if you look into it, you will see that Bible English is exact and precise. The use of any particular word in any form in the King James Bible is entirely accurate, and is hardly understood by even those who read it every day.

There distinction in plurals (thou, thee, thy, thine = one person; ye, you, your, yours = more than one person)

There is a distinction between the subject and the object. The subject is the doer, the object is the recipient of the action. It is "ye" who praise God, and it is "you" whom God blesses, etc.

The grammar on verbs, such as "do", "doth", "doeth", "didst", "diddest", etc. matches up with the tense as well as the voice (grammar stuff).

"Yea" and "Nay" are normally used, but "Yes" and "No" are used when the question is asked in the negative form, such as, "But I say, Have they not heard?" the answer is "Yes verily", because to answer "yea" would be to agree with the negative, i.e. that they have not heard.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:14 AM
IC@KJV IC@KJV is offline
 
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Hi

Thank You very much for that break down of those words.

Thank You and God Bless
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:37 AM
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Steve54 Steve54 is offline
 
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On Sunday I had a discussion with a fellow and he pointed to a wonderful verse that shows how other translations corrupt these words. It is John 3.7... Look at how other translations treat this monumental verse.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:52 PM
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PeterAV PeterAV is offline
 
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Hi IC@KJV,
White's Dictionary of the King James Language is very good on this one.
He dedicated some twenty pages of his book just to the Grammar rules.
A great book that gives the history of each English word and its origin.
Volume one A to E only, so far. Waiting for the rest.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:53 PM
BrianT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibleprotector View Post
The grammar on verbs, such as "do", "doth", "doeth", "didst", "diddest", etc. matches up with the tense as well as the voice (grammar stuff).
-th/-st endings do not indicate tense or voice. There is a rumor floating around that they do (and thus indicate more information/accuracy than modern English), but this is wrong. It is simply a matter of -st being second-person singular, and -th being third-person singular. E.g. "I love"/"I have" (first person singular), "thou lovest"/"thou hast" (second person singular), "he loveth"/"he hath" (third person singular).
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:40 PM
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It is no rumour but truth that the KJB is entirely accurate, which includes its grammar.

Here is Dr Johnson. Notice how he uses the -th, -eth, -st, -est endings. Dr Johnson is writing about English usage at his time, not Bible English. The Bible does distinguish use on the verb with tense and voice even more accurately and perfectly than what Dr Johnson lists, so that we see “do”, “doth”, “doeth”, “dost”, “doest”, “didst”, “diddest”, “did”, “done”, etc. in the Bible. All are distinctly and rightly used in their places.

* * * * * * * * * *

Pronouns, in the English language, are, I, thou, he, with their plurals,
we, ye, they; it, who, which, what, whether, whosoever, whatsoever, my,
mine, our, ours, thy, thine, your, yours, his, her, hers, theirs, this,
that, other, another, the same, some.

The pronouns personal are irregularly inflected.

Singular. Plural.

Nom. I, We.

Accus. and Me, Us.
other oblique
cases.

Nom. Thou, Ye.

Oblique. Thee, You.

...

English verbs are active, as I love; or neuter, as I languish. The neuters
are formed like the actives.

Most verbs signifying action may likewise signify condition or habit,
and become neuters; as I love, I am in love; I strike, I am now
striking.

Verbs have only two tenses inflected in their terminations, the present,
and simple preterit; the other tenses are compounded of the auxiliary
verbs, have, shall, will, let, may, can, and the infinitive of the active
or neuter verb.

The passive voice is formed by joining the participle preterit to the
substantive verb, as I am loved.

To have. Indicative Mood.

Present Tense.

Sing. I have, thou hast, he hath or has,
Plur. We have, ye have, they have.

Has is a termination connoted from hath, but now more frequently used
both in verse and prose.

Simple Preterit.

Sing. I had, thou hadst, he had
Plur. We had, ye had, they had.

Compound Preterit.

Sing. I have had, thou hast had, he has or hath had;
Plur. We have had, ye have had, they have had.

Preterpluperfect.

Sing. I had had, thou hadst had, he had had.
Plur. We had had, ye had had, they had had.

Future.

Sing. I shall have, thou shalt have, he shall have;
Plur. We shall have, ye shall have, they shall have.

Second Future.

Sing. I will have, thou wilt have, he will have;
Plur. We will have, ye wilt have, they will have.

By reading these future tenses may be observed the variations of shall
and will.

Imperative Mood.

Sing. Have, or have thou, let him have;
Plur. Let us have, have or have ye, let them have.

Conjunctive Mood.

Present.

Sing. I have, thou have, he have;
Plur. We have, ye have, they have.

Preterit simple as in the Indicative.

Preterit compound.

Sing. I have had, thou have had, he have had;
Plur. We have had, ye have had, they have had.

Future.

Sing. I shall have, as in the Indicative.

Second Future.

Sing. I shall have had, thou shalt have had, he shall have had;
Plur. We shall have had, ye shall have had, they shall have had.

Potential.

The potential form of speaking is expressed by may, can, in the present;
and might, could, or should, in the preterit, joined with the infinitive
mood of the verb.

Present.

Sing. I may have, thou mayst have, he may have;
Plur. We may have, ye may have, they may have.

Preterit.

Sing. I might have, thou mightst have, he might have;
Plur. We might have, ye might have, they might have.

Present.

Sing. I can have, thou canst have, he can have;
Plur. We can have, ye can have, they can have.

Preterit.

Sing. I could have, thou couldst have, he could have;
Plur. We could have, ye could have, they could have.

In like manner should is united to the verb.

There is likewise a double Preterit.

Sing. I should have had, thou shouldst have had, he should have had;
Plur. We should have had, ye should have had, they should have had.

In like manner we use, I might have had; I could have had, &c.

Infinitive Mood.

Present. To have.
Preterit. To have had.
Participle present. Having.
Participle preterit. Had.

Verb Active. To love.

Indicative. Present.

Sing. I love, thou lovest, he loveth or loves;
Plur. We love, ye love, they love.

Preterit simple.

Sing. I loved, thou lovedst, he loved;
Plur. We loved, ye loved, they loved.
Preterperfect compound. I have loved, &c.
Preterpluperfect. I had loved, &c.
Future. I shall love, &c. I will love, &c.

Imperative.

Sing. Love or love thou, let him love;
Plur. Let us love, love or love ye, let them love.

Conjunctive. Present.

Sing. I love, thou love, he love;
Plur. We love, ye love, they love.
Preterit simple, as in the indicative.
Preterit compound. I have loved, &c.
Future. I shall love, &c.
Second Future. I shall have loved, &c.

Potential.

Present. I may or can love, &c.
Preterit. I might, could, or should love, &c.
Double Preterit. I might, could, or should have
loved, &c.

Infinitive.

Present. To love.
Preterit. To have loved.
Participle present. Loving.
Participle past. Loved.

The passive is formed by the addition of the participle preterit to the
different tenses of the verb to be, which must therefore be here exhibited.

Indicative. Present.

Sing. I am, thou art, he is;
Plur. We are or be, ye are or be, they are or be.
The plural be is now little in use.

Preterit.

Sing. I was, thou wast or wert, he was;
Plur. We were, ye were, they were.

Wert is properly of the conjunctive mood, and ought not to be used in the
indicative.

Preterit compound. I have been, &c.
Preterpluperfect. I had been, &c.
Future. I shall or will be, &c.

Imperative.

Sing. Be thou; let him be;
Plur. Let us be; be ye; let them be.

Conjunctive. Present.

Sing. I be, thou beest, he be;
Plur. We be, ye be, they be.

Preterit.

Sing. I were, thou wert, he were;
Plur. We were, ye were, they were.
Preterit compound. I have been, &c.
Future. I shall have been, &c.

Potential.

I may or can; would, could, or should be; could,
would, or should have been, &c.

Infinitive.

Present. To be.
Preterit. To have been.
Participle present. Being.
Participle preterit. Having been.

Passive Voice. Indicative Mood.

I am loved, &c. I was loved, &c. I have been
loved, &c.

Conjunctive Mood.

If I be loved, &c. If I were loved, &c. If I shall
have been loved, &c.

Potential Mood.

I may or can be loved, &c. I might, could, or
should be loved, &c. I might, could, or should
have been loved, &c.

Infinitive.

Present. To be loved.
Preterit. To have been loved.
Participle. Loved.

There is another form of English verbs, in which the infinitive mood is
joined to the verb do in its various inflections, which are therefore to be
learned in this place.

To do.

Indicative. Present.

Sing. I do, thou dost, he doth;
Plur. We do, ye do, they do.

Preterit.

Sing. I did, thou didst, he did;
Plur. We did, ye did, they did.
Preterit., &c. I have done, &c. I had done, &c.
Future. I shall or will do, &c.

Imperative.

Sing. Do thou, let him do;
Plur. Let us do, do ye, let them do.

Conjunctive. Present.

Sing. I do, thou do, he do;
Plur. We do, ye do, they do.

The rest are as in the Indicative.

Infinite. To do, to have done.
Participle present. Doing.
Participle preterit. Done.

Do is sometimes used superfluously, as I do love, I did love; simply for I
love, or I loved; but this is considered as a vitious mode of speech.
  #8  
Old 12-16-2008, 10:45 PM
BrianT
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And how does any of that disprove what I wrote in my last post? You'll never find an -est/-st ending except on second person singular, and -eth/-th ending except on 3rd person singular.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:08 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Hello IC@KJV,
My advice to you is just read it and keep studying, that KJV language will grow on you and soon you will find that the Holy Spirit gives a deep appreciation for all those thee's and thou's. Certain people like BrianT don't even think the KJV is inerrant, and in my opinion they unwittingly seek to lead others astray here. Bibleprotector is correct—your King James Bible is entirely accurate!
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
You'll never find an -est/-st ending except on second person singular, and -eth/-th ending except on 3rd person singular.
Thou sayest it.
 

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