Bible Studies Post and discuss short Bible studies.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-04-2009, 12:39 PM
boaz212 boaz212 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Default When was Paul saved?

I have another question on Acts. When was Paul saved?

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Act 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I thought Paul was already saved when Ananias went to see him, calling him Brother Saul. If that's right, then why did Ananias tell Paul to wash away his sins, calling on the Lord?
I know I am missing something here. Any insight will be great. Thanks in advance.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #2  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:38 PM
kevinvw kevinvw is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 73
Default

Paul said he was one born out of due time when he saw Jesus on the road to Damascus (1 Cor 15:8). He already had the Holy Spirit indwelling in him, but Ananias was a law abiding orthodox Jew who had not seen the revelation of Acts 8:35, Acts 10:15, or Acts 13:39-40. All he probably knew at the time was Acts 2:38.
  #3  
Old 06-05-2009, 12:22 AM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boaz212 View Post
I have another question on Acts. When was Paul saved?

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Act 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I thought Paul was already saved when Ananias went to see him, calling him Brother Saul. If that's right, then why did Ananias tell Paul to wash away his sins, calling on the Lord?
I know I am missing something here. Any insight will be great. Thanks in advance.
Tim, if you want to know the exact instant Paul was saved, it would be Acts 9:6 when He acknowledged Jesus Christ as Lord and ask him, what wilt thou have me to do?

Now, let's compare Scripture with Scripture and look at the passages rightly divided, look at the progressive revelation:

Ac 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

Acts 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,

Ac 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,

The 'people" Paul is speaking to in Acts 22 are Jews, and we must remember, as i keep pointing out, the Jews had a blistering hatred and racial/spiritual bigotry against anything not Jewish. Paul is not going to point out that Ananias was a "disciple" of Jesus Christ; these people do not know who Jesus Christ is, Paul is in the prcess of preaching Him to them. Thus Paul will point out Ananias's status and stature as being a Jew and a man of good report regarding the Law. Anaias would be one of the converts of Acts 2 and understanding Leviticus 8, would know just exactly what water baptism was as Ananais received it himself as a "disciple". He was a "priest" of the "kingdom of priests", he had been batized in water(consecrated) and had the gift oif the Holy Ghost(sanctification), note Ananais lays his hands on Paul and heals his blindness. Ananais knew nothing of the Body of Christ, he knew nothing of the books of Romans and Galatians, he knew nothing of the One Baptism of I Cor. 12:13 becasue none of this had yet been given to Paul yet. That's called, "progressive revelation".

Acts 9:15 contains our commission for today: To bear the name of Christ to Gentiles, kings, and Jews as ministers of the reconciliation, as ambassadors for Christ, to preach Christ crucified. Paul's commission was not to baptize in water, neither is ours. Paul's commission after Acts 28 when his ministry to national Israel ceased was without:

Water baptism
Tongues
Signs
Wonders
Healings
Drinking deadly poisons
Raising the dead

So is our commission. Why is our commission in exclusion of the above, Tim?

Because they are for to make a show in the flesh.

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight: )
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This is why Paul was chosen, as a wise masterbuilder to be custodian from one dispensation to another, from Time Past to But Now. Salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ crucified apart from the works of the Law, which water baptism is part of. The water baptism of Acts 9 is the water baptism of Acts 2 and Matt. 3 and Lev 8 and Paul had no remission of sin without it, as no one in Acts 2 had remission of sin without it.

Thus Paul had to be water baptized, water baptism to the Jews was still operative under the entire book of Acts. Paul had to receive his sight again via the actions of Ananias, Paul was a Jew and was looking for signs, Paul required a sign.

I hope you have found this helpful.

Grace and peace

Tony
  #4  
Old 06-06-2009, 02:21 PM
Fredoheaven's Avatar
Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philippines
Posts: 176
Default

Annanias received a command from our Lord Jesus Christ as he hath seen him in a vison to put his hand on Paul that he might received his sight. Paul's encountered with the Lord led him to understand about himself with trembling and astonishment. This implies that he can do nothing except the Lord whom he persecuted. Paul was saved that is why our Lord said unto Annanias that he was a chosen vessel, to bear Christ name before the Gentiles. To be noted in verse 11, Saul was already praying, perhaps a marked that he had already a changed heart. Annanias could now approached him Brother Saul, since he had already been saved and only by touching him might received his sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost not to be sealed/indwelt by the Holy Ghost which was unto every believer upon accepting Christ as Saviour. Momentarily he was baptized by Annanias as an identification and to begin his ministry preaching Christ as the Son of God in the synagouges.

Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

When was Paul got saved? When he encountered the Lord not when he encountered Annanias.

The Conversion of Paul leads me to think on the following:
1. Paul as the Persecutor - Acts 9:1-2
2. Paul as the Penintent - Acts 5-6
3. Paul as the Prayerful- Acts 9:11
4. Paul as the Preacher - Acts 9:20-22
5. Paul as the Persecuted Acts 9:23-24

As I study this one together with chapter 22, and as Paul rehearsed his conversion, verse 7 of Acts 9 seem a contradictory with 22:9 where verse 7 stated that Paul's companion heard the voice and whereas 22:9 did not "hear the voice". Why is this? Any could offer help? thanks in advance too.
  #5  
Old 06-08-2009, 04:28 AM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

I believe this is where Paul got saved

Acts 9:4-9 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. and the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
  #6  
Old 06-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

I agree, I believe Paul was saved when he realized Jesus was the Lord. You see some interesting things here, first Paul asked;

"Who art thou Lord"?

I have a feeling Paul knew who it was, but perhaps not. Then the Lord answered;

"I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

I think the very moment Paul heard the name Jesus he was saved. This must have been a terrifying moment for him, as he realized he had been persecuting the people of God and the Lord himself. But Paul surrendered his heart and will to Jesus that very moment and said;

"Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?"

Unlike those who saw and heard Jesus and rejected him, Paul was no fool. And he was a true man who honestly wanted to know God. He surrendered his life to Jesus right then and there.
  #7  
Old 06-09-2009, 07:04 PM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
I agree, I believe Paul was saved when he realized Jesus was the Lord. You see some interesting things here, first Paul asked;

"Who art thou Lord"?

I have a feeling Paul knew who it was, but perhaps not. Then the Lord answered;

"I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

I think the very moment Paul heard the name Jesus he was saved. This must have been a terrifying moment for him, as he realized he had been persecuting the people of God and the Lord himself. But Paul surrendered his heart and will to Jesus that very moment and said;

"Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?"

Unlike those who saw and heard Jesus and rejected him, Paul was no fool. And he was a true man who honestly wanted to know God. He surrendered his life to Jesus right then and there.
Paul knew who He was, that is, he knew he was God or he would not have, as a Pharisee and Hebrew of the Hebrews, called Him "Lord":

De 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Mr 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Grace and peace friends

Tony
  #8  
Old 06-11-2009, 01:20 PM
boaz212 boaz212 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Default

Thanks everyone for responding to my question. It's clear to me now when Paul got saved which the time when he called out Lord the second time knowing it was Jesus.
As far as Ananias telling Paul Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord, I am still search for the answer.
Tony, I have not studied the NT in the dispensational view you had presented. It will take some more time for me to continue reading and praying for understanding before I am sure how to interpret the dispensations more scripturally. I appreciate your detailed explanation. I will be reading this thread a few more times through in the near future.
Thank you all.
  #9  
Old 06-11-2009, 04:37 PM
Fredoheaven's Avatar
Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philippines
Posts: 176
Default

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

In Acts 9 is the event that made him a believer whereas, Acts 22 to be noted is telling his testimony concerning his conversion. Paul was already been saved by virtue of what happened in Acts 9 and accordingly, he was already saved when Annanias baptized him.

In Acts 22, there were some records in Paul's Testimony that seem in contradictory in Acts 9. One of it is the "voice" being heard in 9:7 and no "voice" being heard in 22:9. Then the problem of being baptized, and washed away thy sins (22:16) whereas in Acts 9, Paul was saved and was baptized.

Let me have my best guess in this particular text of 22:16.

1. The use of "AND" of 22:16
AND

To suggest that one idea is chronologically sequential to another: "Tashonda sent in her applications and waited by the phone for a response."
To suggest that one idea is the result of another: "Willie heard the weather report and promptly boarded up his house."
To suggest that one idea is in contrast to another (frequently replaced by but in this usage): "Juanita is brilliant and Shalimar has a pleasant personality.
To suggest an element of surprise (sometimes replaced by yet in this usage): "Hartford is a rich city and suffers from many symptoms of urban blight."
To suggest that one clause is dependent upon another, conditionally (usually the first clause is an imperative): "Use your credit cards frequently and you'll soon find yourself deep in debt."
To suggest a kind of "comment" on the first clause: "Charlie became addicted to gambling — and that surprised no one who knew him."

"Arise and be baptized" would meant Paul to submit to baptism as a result of his conversion and to symbolized what had Christ did unto him.
"And wash away thy sins" this might be the result of Paul calling on the Lord.

I hope this will help but I beleive many brethren will come out answering your question in a more clearer way. God bless you!!!
  #10  
Old 06-14-2009, 01:06 PM
premio53 premio53 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boaz212 View Post
Thanks everyone for responding to my question. It's clear to me now when Paul got saved which the time when he called out Lord the second time knowing it was Jesus.
As far as Ananias telling Paul Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord, I am still search for the answer.
Tony, I have not studied the NT in the dispensational view you had presented. It will take some more time for me to continue reading and praying for understanding before I am sure how to interpret the dispensations more scripturally. I appreciate your detailed explanation. I will be reading this thread a few more times through in the near future.
Thank you all.
The simple explanation is that baptism symbolizes the washing away of one's sins just as it symbolizes passing from death unto life (Romans 6:4,5). Just as one does not die while in the water, neither can physical water wash away moral and spiritual sins. These are metaphors of baptism.

Peter explains this clearly in 1 Peter 3:21.

I Peter 3:21, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

Notice how Paul uses "figure" in Hebrews.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Here we have a clear comparison between two scriptures regarding the word 'figure'. In I Peter 3, the 'figure' of salvation is baptism. In Hebrews 9, the 'figure' of heaven (where God dwells) is the holy place. Now we know that the holy place and heaven are not the same thing, as well as baptism and salvation are not the same thing. They simply 'represent' those things.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

If water baptism is required to be saved, then it is saved by works first, and then faith, and that is unbiblical. It was the faith of Noah and his family that put them in the ark. The water saving them was symbolic of baptism. It is an outward sign that we publically admit our faith in God and His promises.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com