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Old 05-20-2009, 09:39 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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Default Question on Acts 2:31

OK - first keep this Scripture in mind:
"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Acts 2:31
Someone I know has said,
"To really know Christ you have to know Satan. To have knowledge you have to eat from the tree of life in order to understand sin and grow as a person. Sometimes in my life in order for me to grow as a person and a Christian I need to to go between two extremes to really understand God. After all when Christ was baptized he first sunk below the earth into hell and then arose out of the earth. Christ himself had to experience hell before he could experience God."
I know how WRONG this view is. How do I prove the truth with this person?

Jassy
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  #2  
Old 05-21-2009, 04:50 AM
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johnlf johnlf is offline
 
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Christ did not descend into hell to experience it. He went to Sheol (which had a side of fiery torments and a side of paradise) to show his victory over death on the cross and to retrieve the souls of those in Abraham's bosom and take them with him to heaven:

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Ephesians 4
King James Bible

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Luke 16
King James Bible

An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 12
King James Bible

Now as to this person's point:

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6
King James Bible

My advice Sister: Rebuke this person and then stay away from this person if they don't repent.

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Ephesians 5
King James Bible

Last edited by johnlf; 05-21-2009 at 05:01 AM.
  #3  
Old 05-21-2009, 05:24 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Quote:
"To really know Christ you have to know Satan. To have knowledge you have to eat from the tree of life in order to understand sin and grow as a person. Sometimes in my life in order for me to grow as a person and a Christian I need to to go between two extremes to really understand God. After all when Christ was baptized he first sunk below the earth into hell and then arose out of the earth. Christ himself had to experience hell before he could experience God.
The above ----Thats a cop out for living in a sinful worldly state

Quote:
After all when Christ was baptized he first sunk below the earth into hell
Scipture? NO, personal opinion and one that is dead wrong at that.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of
God.
Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou
serve.
Matthew 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

It is clear from the scripture that it was NOT hell he had descended into. Your friend would do well to heed Matthew 4:7....Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Which is what he is doing by descending into sin to fruitlessly try and understand God
To really understand God, we, by his Spirit need to prayerfully study his written word
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
As for Christ descending into Hell to be tormented, that is nonsense, I agree with John here , he descended to let the OT saints out of paradise and led them to the Third heaven (New paradise)

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Christ never went to Hell to be tormented, he went to lead his OT saints home for he was never to see corruption.

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Your friend seems to be justifying living in unrepentant sin, or dabbling in the occult as a way of drawing close to God, he couldn't be more wrong (scripturally) maybe he needs to forget Hollywood movies and get himself right with God.

Last edited by peopleoftheway; 05-21-2009 at 05:35 AM.
  #4  
Old 05-21-2009, 02:15 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
OK - first keep this Scripture in mind:
"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Acts 2:31
Someone I know has said,
"To really know Christ you have to know Satan. To have knowledge you have to eat from the tree of life in order to understand sin and grow as a person. Sometimes in my life in order for me to grow as a person and a Christian I need to to go between two extremes to really understand God. After all when Christ was baptized he first sunk below the earth into hell and then arose out of the earth. Christ himself had to experience hell before he could experience God."
I know how WRONG this view is. How do I prove the truth with this person?
Just one more point regarding the last sentence, Christ did not need to EXPERIENCE GOD, because HE IS GOD, and HE ALWAYS WAS.

"Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." - John 8:57-58

To really UNDERSTAND GOD, we need to be born again and read God's Book, the King James Bible! It sounds you need to share the Gospel with your friend to help them understand the true nature of God and how Jesus can help them have victory over hell and the grave.
  #5  
Old 05-21-2009, 03:01 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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The other mistake that I noticed with what this person said is:
"To have knowledge you have to eat from the tree of life in order to understand sin and grow as a person."
What a huge error that is in understanding God's Word! The tree of life gives eternal LIFE, doesn't it? It's "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" (Gen. 2:9 and 2:17) that gives knowledge and UNDERSTANDING!

All godly wisdom and truth comes only from God.

Bro Parrish, you said "Christ did not need to EXPERIENCE GOD, because HE IS GOD, and HE ALWAYS WAS." and you are absolutely right! Since Christ IS God that ends the fallacy of that argument right there!

And AMEN, to truly understand God we need to be BORN again and Christ needs to be IN us and we need to be IN Him. That means regularly eating of His Word - the "bread of life"! Ohhhh TASTE! How joyous this bread from heaven makes me!!!

Yes, hell is the "grave" in that Scripture and I showed him that with other Scriptures.

peopleoftheway - AMEN! What that person said WAS a copout for living a worldly sinful life. I've made my choice to live in Christ. This person seems back and forth and can't decide. I noticed on another forum, he used the signature: "Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth" which is only the very first portion of Ecclesiastes 11:9. Conveniently, he left off the ending of that Scripture that says, "...but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment." Obviously he is living the "pleasure principle" - which seems to be "Sin first, think of salvation and judgment later." Or perhaps it's the latter part of 1 Cor. 15:32 - "...let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."

I've dealt so much with nominal Christians like this, trying to show them in the Word what is expected from Christians. Romans 12:1 - "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

To me - this is a DELIGHT!! I am so full of JOY in this!! I can't conceive of living any other way now. I do show people from the Scriptures what the Word really says. Some of these nominal Christians have false statements made by their ministers engraved upon their minds - and they think that it's something biblical.

johnlf - Good advice to rebuke this person and stay away from them if they don't repent. I can't force them to see the truth. It's there for their reading and edification and learning, if they will only SEE.

I have been praying for this person and that is what I see as the best course of action. Having show from the Scriptures why that viewpoint is wrong, now the plan is to pray for them.

Jassy
  #6  
Old 05-21-2009, 05:08 PM
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Cody1611 Cody1611 is offline
 
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Jassy, I do not agree with your friend.

Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." KJV

John, I don't believe in going to the Greek, so I'm not seeing how you get paradise out of the above verse. I believe if the verse meant to say paradise, Abraham's bosom or the grave, I believe it would of said it, but it doesn't. The verse says that His soul was not left in HELL.
  #7  
Old 05-21-2009, 08:17 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Sis. Jassy good day!

To know Christ is to hate every falseway. A saved person loves the light and reproves the unfruitful works of darkness. Paul said in Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In this case, the person you know with extreme view may not be saved afterall. Here are other verses of the Bible as we are admonish by Paul:

Ephesians 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Johnlf said:
Christ did not descend into hell to experience it. He went to Sheol (which had a side of fiery torments and a side of paradise) to show his victory over death on the cross and to retrieve the souls of those in Abraham's bosom and take them with him to heaven:

Jesus who have the authority over everything including hell has no problem going over there. The purpose of Christ came over there was to proclaim victory over death. This has been attested by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:57.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

One thing, if Shadrach, Meschach and Abed-nego did not felt any pain while in the burning fiery furnace, how much more the Son of God who have the power over death and hell. Afterall, it was the Son of God that King Nebuchanezzar saw while the three (3) was on the burning furnace of fire.

Daniel 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Daniel 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
  #8  
Old 05-21-2009, 08:37 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Jesus who have the authority over everything including hell has no problem going over there. The purpose of Christ came over there was to proclaim victory over death. This has been attested by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:57.

 

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