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  #21  
Old 02-02-2008, 04:26 PM
Lively Stone
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Bro. Brandon

If you won't believe God. If you will not accept historical facts then I have nothing more to say. Any further discussion on my part would not be convenient. I have shown you the facts of what God said in the KJB. You make puny referances now with a couple of loose scriptures to make a point that I gave you dozens of scripture to make my point. So you say the Bible does not mean what it says. The word means age. That is reinterpreting. You are simply not qualified in any manner to do that.

It is like you said Bro. Brandon. If you don't like the message, kill the messanger. I have to prepare, for tommorrow is Sunday. I regret that I do not have the time nor the will to engage in endless diatribe about the Word of God. It is your ball run with it and may God bless you in your endeaver.

Bro. Danny
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  #22  
Old 02-02-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
If you won't believe God.


The "god of this world" easily cross-references with Ephesians 2, which I have already quoted. To say that the "god of this world" is the One True God is to say that God's spirit is "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

I believe God when Christ preached in John 14:30, which I have already quoted.

Quote:
The word means age. That is reinterpreting.
How is the word "world" used in 2Pe 3:6? If the "world that then was" doesn't mean a time passed, what does it mean? We see from the Bible's own use of the word that it can mean a period of time (age). This is somewhat beside the point, though -- you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.



Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
You should not accuse me of not believing God. Jesus preached that the devil uses this power. How can I be accused of not believing God by taking this at face value?

Is a discussion of how Satan is given this power warranted? Indeed so, but it is established clearly in Scripture that the power is there.

Another poster already showed how this comes about:
(2Th 2) "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
  #23  
Old 02-04-2008, 03:01 PM
Lively Stone
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Bro. Brandon:

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this age(which I understand to mean ).
Lean not unto your own understanding for the translators who had access to material we never dreamed of decided this should be world and not age.

This is an attempt of Satan and New Age philosophers to add into Gods Holy writ another name for him. This is how Satan operates; always concealing his true identity with another symbol or name, and thereby gain legitimacy. Because he has deceived many Christians, he has become the “god” of this world. This Bible scripture simply does not say this in II Corinthians 4:4. It is completely out of context with chapter 3 of II Corinthians.

You seem to want to change the thesis I wrote to another argument. I can understand that a seminary trained denominational pastor would have to defend their position even it it were wrong. It is hard to admit that one has been glorifying Satan and giving him glory the Bible simply does not give him.
A few pastors have repented of this heresy but not many because they would face the wrath of their denomination and lose their credentials. It is hard to repent for teaching error after all your a pastor. My experience of 62 years is pastors don't repent unless they get caught.

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The "god of this world" easily cross-references with Ephesians 2, which I have already quoted. To say that the "god of this world" is the One True God is to say that God's spirit is "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."
Now you are simply making up nonsense. How does prince of the power of the air equate with being a god. A prince is not even a King. You have tried to be deceptive and mislead the readers.

Quote:
The word means age. That is reinterpreting.
How is the word "world" used in 2Pe 3:6? If the "world that then was" doesn't mean a time passed, what does it mean? We see from the Bible's own use of the word that it can mean a period of time (age). This is somewhat beside the point, though -- you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.

Really off the subject. You claim to be the champion of the perfect word of God and then try to reinterpretet it and change the words. Simply not being honest with what you claim you believe.

Quote:
you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.
Yes that is exactly what I am doing and like you said in your own comment, your comment is beside the point and misleading to the readers.

Quote:
Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Wonderful scripture and very true but has nothing to do with the argument. Are you straining at a knat? The thesis is not about whether or not Satan has power. My thesis proves he does if God says he does. Did you read the entire thesis or did you just start attacking it to kill the messinger. Please stick to the argument.

Quote:
You should not accuse me of not believing God. Jesus preached that the devil uses this power. How can I be accused of not believing God by taking this at face value
Because the issue presented is not about the power of Satan. Again did you read it in it's entirety? You are willing to change word in the Bible when it is conenient to your argument. Is that living up to what you claim your site is about and believing God?

You go on rambling about the power of Satan in a gleeful manner further and distort the whole basis of my thesis. Exalt him some more.

There is life and death in the power of the toungue and you have made Satan a god. Wow and no where in the Bible does it say this. That is quite a pronoucement upon the people you shepard. Better to teach about the power of the name of Jesus Christ.Another poster already showed how this comes about:

Quote:
(2Th 2) "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Thats a coincidence I quoted that scripture in my thesis. Don't you have anything to disprove my thesis instead of changing the subject and quoting scriptures I already quoted? Come on you are not disproving my thesis but simple playing at kill the messenger. I don't believe you would repent even if read the thesis and agreed. I simply do not believe you have given my thesis adequate reading.

Quote:
(Note: the capital "G" in the original 1611 KJV.)

By the way, I don't think this line of argumentation supports your case. This is not the only verse where an upper-case G in the 1611 edition was changed to lower-case g in subsequent editions. Another example is here:
So what? If you had read my thesis I showed you some Bibles including the KJB and some previous versions in English and German and Aramaic. Someone made a mistake making that a little "g" to cause much confusion. Why would previous versions have a capital G and not now. You are wrong again.

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The fact is that our current KJV represents a purification of previous editions (as the KJV itself was a purification of previous translation). When cross-referencing "god of this world" with "prince of the powers of the air," etc, clearly shows us that Satan is to whom this refers, it doesn't seem like a good idea to advocate that we revert this one lower-case g to upper-case because of previous editions.
Then why in this scripture is the purified version have a capital G. A belly is not a big G God.

Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Your argument is just plain silly.

Quote:
3. Last I checked in my King James Bible, the word "god" had a little "g". I don't believe in correcting my Bible, do you? Crossreferenced with John 12:31, I firmly believe Satan is in view in that verse.
Do your homework. The KJB has had hundreds of thousands of spelling and grammar corrections. At what point do think there were no more spelling and grammatical errors?

Quote:
Convincing me that this isn't a reference to our adversary (Satan) is going to take some doing!
Never said that. Again you are throwing dust in the air because you have neither read nor understood my thesis. You take many liberties with the truth.

My impression you will say anything to try to make points with your readers so you won't be wrong. The fact is however you have raised many questions and quoted many scriptures, none of which have anything at all to do with my thesis that Satan is not the God of this world or any other place. You want to glorify him to god status. The Bible never, never calls him that. If you read my thesis, I show some of the perverted bibles that now use the word satan as part of their quote because you preachers have made up this stupidity for so many years it is now considered matter of fact by attrition.

Bro. Danny
  #24  
Old 02-04-2008, 03:19 PM
jerry
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Danny, you might want to back off from calling the Administrator of these message boards a heretic and someone blinded to what the Bible actually says - you certainly are not going to fit in here too well then!!

Quote:
How is the word "world" used in 2Pe 3:6? If the "world that then was" doesn't mean a time passed, what does it mean? We see from the Bible's own use of the word that it can mean a period of time (age). This is somewhat beside the point, though -- you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.
If you are going to rant and rave, you might want to be a little more careful in your quoting of previous posts. The way you have things blockquoted in your response above actually makes this look like your statement - and therefore confuses your readers and makes them think you are off your rocker (ie. because it looks like you are flipping your position around).
  #25  
Old 02-04-2008, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
I can understand that a seminary trained denominational pastor would have to defend their position even it it were wrong.
Never been to seminary, am not a pastor. Just a Bible student interested in understanding God's word. I've got no problem with reading your position and even discussing it with you, but you seem quick to turn things personal. You're quick to assume I have some ulterior motive in my responses other than an honest exchange.

The fact is, the idea that Satan is the "god of this world" is nothing novel and certainly not an invention of mine. You really need to ease up a bit in the "you don't believe God" nonsense. It's just not warranted.

I'll be considering your viewpoint carefully in my future study. I don't know that there is anything else to say about it than that.

As for your other points -- you brought up more than just this one verse in your posts, including who has the power to blind mens' eyes, etc -- and so I responded to what I thought was the totality of your arguments, not just the one specific issue in the thread topic. I'm not trying to confuse things at all. You ought not be so suspicious.
  #26  
Old 02-04-2008, 03:37 PM
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Danny, you might want to back off from calling the Administrator of these message boards a heretic and someone blinded to what the Bible actually says - you certainly are not going to fit in here too well then!!
I would like Danny to treat me like he would anyone else. I've been running the KJBP since 1995 and Danny's comments against me are pretty mild next to some of the emails I routinely get.

However, it would seem meet for any of us to give others who claim to hold to the final authority of God's word in the AV the benefit of the doubt, and not so carelessly throw about accusations of disbelieving God simply because one disagrees with a theological position.
  #27  
Old 02-04-2008, 04:07 PM
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Thanks Brandon. I just get tired of someone coming on to someone else's boards, posting different theology - then calling the Mods or Admins (or regular members of the boards that hold the same general positions) heretics, etc. because they don't believe whatever novel theology the other person is bringing in. If it lines up with the Bible, they need to show that - and not just call every one a compromiser, etc. just because they don't automatically accept what is being presented. I know I am new to these boards here - but I have been a Mod or Admin of various boards the last 6 or 7 years and I have seen a lot of it. To me, it seems better to head it off at the pass, but I realize I am a newcomer here too. God bless.
  #28  
Old 02-04-2008, 07:49 PM
Lively Stone
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Bro. Brandon:

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I would like Danny to treat me like he would anyone else. I've been running the KJBP since 1995 and Danny's comments against me are pretty mild next to some of the emails I routinely get.
Well Bro. Brandon I have treated you better than I would most people who would start attacking a thesis which represents years of study on a matter of sound doctrine. By your own admission you have not considered nor studied the matter but will at some future date. Is it fair to me and the readers that I should bear the brunt of arguring about doctrine that is not in my thesis. You tried to hijack the discussion and take it where you wanted it without due consideration. Do I respect that. No, but because of something you said that did touch me in my heart and convict me that you are truly a Godly man and are seeking the truth I am not going to take it to heart toward you. I will quote you from my thesis if that is alright.

"God created man and made for him two spirits, that he might walk by them until the appointed time. They are the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. In the abode of light are the origins of truth and from the source of darkness are the origins of error.

The spirits of truth and error struggle in the heart of a man; they walk in wisdom and folly, and according to each mans inheritance in truth he does right, and so he hates error; but accordingly to his possession in the lot of error he does wickedly in it, and so he abhors truth." These are my words. There are scriptures quoted in my thesis to confirm this.

I quote this to you Bro. Brandon in Christian love. The search for the truth is a lifetime endeavor. I don't have it all nor does anyone else. So, please don't summarily dismiss what I consider to be a great pearl that I am laying at your feet. Truth is found here a little there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept. Read the thesis and pray about it. Don't be dilligent like the new perverted bibles say but Study.

This is a little off topic but either you or Bro. Jerry tryed to equate something about Christ kingdom at some future date according to Revelations. I agree with the rapture, the second coming of Jesus and His millenial reign where he will straighten out this evil and corrupt world and establish His reign here on the earth and kick out the pretender Satan.

But remember Jesus said:

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

If the Kingdom of God is within you that is not a future event. Jesus is God. John 1:1 So you see His Kingdom is already here on the earth. So you see the thesis is not about the millenial reign or any of the other diversions that were interjected into the attack upon my thesis. Fair is Fair. Don't do that.

On the subject of respect. I was taught my Christian brothers and sisters should be addressed as such. That is why I always refer to them in such a respectful manor as either brother or sister. Neither you nor Jerry should disrespect an elder of the church in that mannor. I mean that literally and figuratively.

Bro. Jerry.
Quote:
To me, it seems better to head it off at the pass, but I realize I am a newcomer here too. God bless
Your threats fall on deaf ears. I teach and preach the way I want. If the fire is too hot get out of the kitchen. Read the thesis before you start whining and slinging mud. The only one I will answer to is God almighty. Do some study before you answer your elders and make threats. There are scripture about that you may want to read. You seem to like to want me removed from the board instead of presenting anything of a nature of true rebuttal to what I originally presented. Just chasing rabbits. Maybe in time you will mature to be able to engage in such challenging debate. To do so means to Study what has been said and then respond on point. Not to offer some off the wall comment or scripture not on topic. Sometimes people get offended. Go almost anywhere and quote scripture to a stranger and most of the time it will not be welcome. Presenting the correction of a falsely taught doctrine is recieved the same way. Maybe seducing spirits, maybe lack of caring, satified with status quo, think they already know the answer because they have locked a sovereign God in a box to where Satan is big and God who created him is little. Whatever the case there are no powers, principalities, or anything else that God is not in control of. If you do not believe that then one might as well become a lucerferian devil worshipper.

Bro. Danny
  #29  
Old 02-04-2008, 09:06 PM
jerry
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"God created man and made for him two spirits, that he might walk by them until the appointed time. They are the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. In the abode of light are the origins of truth and from the source of darkness are the origins of error.
Brandon, have fun, looks like you got a live one on your hands... Someone who has departed the realm of Bible doctrine and wandered into fantasy.
  #30  
Old 02-04-2008, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
Well Bro. Brandon I have treated you better than I would most people who would start attacking a thesis
Perhaps that was your first problem -- you viewed me as attacking your work, when I was doing nothing of the sort.

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By your own admission you have not considered nor studied the matter but will at some future date.
You've misunderstood me. I certainly have studied the issue of who "the god of this world" is. What I said is that as I approach this topic in my study in the future (meaning tomorrow, or even in a few hours, etc) I will keep your position in mind.

Quote:
Read the thesis and pray about it. Don't be dilligent like the new perverted bibles say but Study.
You seem to make statements designed specifically to put me on the defensive. Here you've alluded to my forum handle (Diligent) and then imply it has something to do with modern versions. I know the verse and the modern corruption of it to which you refer, but my KJV has the word "diligent" in 14 verses.

By all means, encourage study. Study is a Christian man's duty. But don't lace your encouragement with such vitriol.
 

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