[Fredoheaven]

To whom it may concern;

By what do you mean by a kingdom gospel? Didn't Paul preach kingdom gospel? Could you explain the proof text which Apostle Paul may preach kingdom gospel?

Acts 20:25, And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Acts 28:23, And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 28:31, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
1Corinthians 15:50, Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Brother Tim, water baptism is most certainly a part of the Law given to Moses in Exodus and Leviticus. The OT "washings" are called "baptisms" in Hebrews:

Heb. 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Tony

WOW your Hyperdispensationalism has you so confused you can't even understand TWO VERSES in Hebrews. I suppose you consider the doctrines of faith toward God and eternal judgment as "dead works" also. You need to read that verse carefully, this time put your glasses on brother.

[George]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Brother George,
First, thanks for the response. You laid out the relationship of the leadership during the Acts era well. You stated that you did not see where Peter and John would have been preaching a different or separate Gospel in Jerusalem than Paul was. I agree for that would have created great confusion. That Peter and the others may have continued some of their Jewish practices is very possible, though Peter's vision should have changed some of that. Paul later reprimands Peter for showing his old Jewish behavior. We cannot say that the Jerusalem Christians would have been able to continue openly their traditions (such as the temple worship) after Stephen's death and the scattering.

Which brings me to my next answer (and a question):
Yes, the early disciples neglected Jesus' instructions. Things became to comfortable, and they were not spreading out as they should have. God sent persecution via Saul to accomplish that. The ones that left carried the Gospel message wherever they went, (Acts 8:4) apparently not restricting the hearers to Jews only. These witnesses would not have had any opportunity for connection with Paul's teaching. They would have been fulfilling the Great Commission mandate. Since we do not know how far some went, is it not possible that just as Philip spoke to Samaritans (non-Jews), some of these believers could have gone throughout the then known world, speaking to whomsoever they met?

Finally, Peter preached to the Gentiles in Cornelius' house. They were received as equals when they believed. Was his "Gospel" any different than Paul's then?

Emphasis mine (Brother Tim's):

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness [OT!], that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. [THE GOSPEL!]
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [Gentiles being baptized, Tony, and NOT John's baptism! - see next verse - They already have the baptism of the Holy Ghost and HAVE BEEN already saved!]
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Aloha brother Tim,

In regards to your statement:
"Since we do not know how far some went, is it not possible that just as Philip spoke to Samaritans (non-Jews), some of these believers could have gone throughout the then known world, speaking to whomsoever they met?"

Anything is "possible", but there is no Scriptural record about your "speculation". However, we do know that when the Apostle Paul (Saul) visited Jerusalem {36-38 A.D.} for the first time (all dates are "approximate") AFTER his conversion that the "disciples" and "apostles" were still there. [Acts 9:26-31]

And upon Paul's second visit to Jerusalem {49-51 A.D.} after his first missionary journey Peter, James, and John along with the "apostles" and "elders" are said to still be there. [Acts 15:1-35; Galatians 2:1-10]

And upon the Apostle Paul's third visit to Jerusalem {58-60 A.D.} after his third missionary journey James and the "elders" were still there. [Acts 21:15-40; Acts 22:1-30; 23: 1-35] There is NO Scriptural record of the disciples or apostles fulfilling the Lord Jesus Christ's commandment - on the contrary, according to the Scriptures, other than scattering to Samaria, Caesarea, and other nearby towns, it appears that most of them ended up congregating in Jerusalem (the "headquarters" for the early church - which consisted of nearly all Jews or Proselyte Jews).

When it comes to these matters "speculation" serves no purpose other than to blur the issue.

As to your observation about Acts 10:43 being the "Gospel", I agree. But remember this "Gospel" was DIFFERENT than that "gospel" that Peter had been preaching in Acts Chapters 2 - 8. Peter and those brethren were "SURPRISED" when the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles (WITHOUT water baptism or "the laying on of hands" - I will expound on this at a later time).

Suffice it to say, that once the "gospel of the kingdom" was rejected by the nation of Israel, God turned first to the Samaritans [Acts 8: 4-25], and then a Jewish Proselyte [Acts 8:26-40], and as illustrated here - finally to the Gentiles [Acts 10: 19-48].

Peter "opened the door" to the Gentiles, but it was the Apostle Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles - Romans 11:23) who went through "the door" and actively sought to convert the Gentiles with his (MY) "Gospel".

[Brother Tim]

Sorry, George, but I just cannot see any distinction between "the gospel" elsewhere in Acts and "my gospel" used thrice by Paul, twice to the believers in Rome who would have included Jews, and to Timothy, the reference there being very curious if Paul's gospel was new.

Paul was indeed the apostle to the Gentiles, but Acts gives ample evidence that Jews were included among those whom he reached with his gospel.

[George]

Originally Posted by Fredoheaven

To whom it may concern;

By what do you mean by a kingdom gospel? Didn't Paul preach kingdom gospel? Could you explain the proof text which Apostle Paul may preach kingdom gospel?

Acts 20:25, And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Acts 28:23, And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 28:31, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
1Corinthians 15:50, Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Aloha brother Fred,

Preaching the "gospel of the kingdom" is NOT the SAME as preaching about "the kingdom of God".

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Paul preached and taught about "the kingdom of God" (notice the absence of the word "gospel" in the verses you supplied), but as far as the "gospel" is concerned - he preached the "Gospel" of the Grace of God.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

The "Gospel" of the Grace of God is specifically the "message" of Salvation for the church age (Paul's "Gospel"). To preach and teach about the "kingdom of God" is to preach and teach "ALL the counsel of God" [Acts 20:27], NOT just the "Gospel" message of salvation.

Paul calls "his Gospel" many things, bit he never refers to it as "the gospel of the kingdom of God":

The Apostle Paul called the "gospel":

Acts 20:24 the gospel of the grace of God

Romans 1:1 = the gospel of God

Romans 1:9 the gospel of his Son

Romans 1:16 the gospel of Christ

Romans 2:16 my gospel

Romans 10:15 the gospel of peace

Romans 15:16 the gospel of God

Romans 15:19 the gospel of Christ.

Romans 15:29 the gospel of Christ.

Romans 16:25 my gospel

1 Corinthians 9:12 the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:18 the gospel of Christ

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

2 Corinthians 2:12 Christ's gospel

2 Corinthians 4:3 our gospel

2 Corinthians 4:4 the glorious gospel of Christ

2 Corinthians 9:13 the gospel of Christ

2 Corinthians 10:14 the gospel of Christ

2 Corinthians 11:7 the gospel of God

Galatians 1:7 the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Ephesians 1:13 the gospel of your salvation:

Ephesians 6:15 the gospel of peace;

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Philippians 1:27 the gospel of Christ

1 Thessalonians 1:5 our gospel

1 Thessalonians 2:2 the gospel of God

1 Thessalonians 2:8 the gospel of God

1 Thessalonians 2:9 the gospel of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:2 the gospel of Christ

2 Thessalonians 1:8 the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Thessalonians 2:14 our gospel

1 Timothy 1:11 the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

2 Timothy 2:8 my gospel

The foregoing verses give the Bible "Definition" of Paul's "Gospel". Paul received his "Gospel" [Galatians 1:12] by "revelation" directly from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

If Paul's "Gospel" was the SAME as that preached by Peter and the rest of the apostles and disciples, WHY couldn't he just have been "taught" it (by man)? WHY would he have needed to receive it (his "Gospel") by direct "revelation" from the Lord Jesus Christ - UNLESS his "Gospel" was a "mystery", which God had kept hidden from all of the rest of the disciples and apostles?

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Every time the word "baptize" shows up in the Bible it doesn't ALWAYS mean "WATER BAPTISM". Every time the word "church" shows up in the Bible it doesn't ALWAYS mean a NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH. And every time the word "gospel" shows up in the Holy Bible it doesn't ALWAYS mean THE SAME "GOSPEL" EVERY TIME.

Originally Posted by Fredoheaven

To whom it may concern;

By what do you mean by a kingdom gospel? Didn't Paul preach kingdom gospel? Could you explain the proof text which Apostle Paul may preach kingdom gospel?

Acts 20:25, And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Acts 28:23, And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 28:31, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
1Corinthians 15:50, Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Bro. Frederick, I just want to say I appreciate your posts on this thread, I went to your site and that looks like a wonderful group of people you have over in the Philippines. And you guys are producing some beautiful music as well, brother!

[Brother Tim]

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

I believe that using the phrase "according to my gospel", Paul is referring to his previously written and spoken messages, and not to a different message than the others who were contemporary to him. Else, are we to assume that ALL MEN will be judged using Paul's gospel and no other?

[George]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Sorry, George, but I just cannot see any distinction between "the gospel" elsewhere in Acts and "my gospel" used thrice by Paul, twice to the believers in Rome who would have included Jews, and to Timothy, the reference there being very curious if Paul's gospel was new.

Paul was indeed the apostle to the Gentiles, but Acts gives ample evidence that Jews were included among those whom he reached with his gospel.

Aloha brother Tim,

I'm sorry also - that you cannot see that the Apostle Peter's "message" (appeal) was exclusively to the WHOLE NATION of ISRAEL {i.e. "Ye men of Israel" & "ALL the house of Israel"}.

And Paul's "message" (appeal) which was to INDIVIDUALS (Jews & Gentiles) Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

There's a huge difference between addressing a whole nation and addressing an individual (whether they be Jews or Gentiles). And that is the "difference" between preaching "the gospel of the kingdom" and the preaching of the "gospel of the grace of God."

[George]

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

I believe that using the phrase "according to my gospel", Paul is referring to his previously written and spoken messages, and not to a different message than the others who were contemporary to him. Else, are we to assume that ALL MEN will be judged using Paul's gospel and no other?

Aloha brother Tim,

You got it! I'm NOT "assuming" anything! All men (living during the church age) are going to be judged by Paul's "Gospel" - that's what it says, and I believe it. I'm not going to try to "second guess" what God "might have meant" - I believe what Paul said (when he said it & where he said it) - plus nothing & minus nothing.

Romans 16:25 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

WHY else was it necessary for him to receive "his Gospel" by direct "revelation" from the Lord Jesus Christ and NOT from other men (Peter, James, John, etc.), IF his "Gospel" was the "SAME"?

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

[Brother Tim]

WHY else was it necessary for him to receive "his Gospel" by direct "revelation" from the Lord Jesus Christ and NOT from other men (Peter, James, John, etc.), IF his "Gospel" was the "SAME"?

He would not have been qualified to be an apostle otherwise. All the others received the message directly from the LORD. He received the same also, though at the later point in time.

If the gospel is the same, then all men can be judged equally. That solves the problem with no need for second guessing.