[stephanos]

Have any of you heard and kept up with this movement? I've been speaking with one of their followers on youtube recently. It is so alarming to me (yet predicted in the Scriptures) how so many religions are corruptions of Christianity. This guy I've spoken with SABANAR claims to be an ex Christian missionary turned Chassid turned Na Nach. He thinks this video is proof enough that Christianity is false: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aW2N46vf4Q I think personally that Satan created all these false religions to hide the true one. I also wonder if this all started in Babylon with Nimrod, Semiramis and their child Tammuz. I wonder if this was where it all began... I really should finish Hislops The Two Babylons.

Truly, the great and dreadful day is near. I am sad for the decieved, yet so excited to see and hear my Master in the flesh.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[chette777]

when you see him you shall be like him for you shall see him as he is.

now if you apply your concern here of false religions to worship music and you can see the same enemy Satan is behind it as well.

[chette777]

This Should help those who are not familiar with this movement. also known as the Hebrew word Movement. there is a break away group of rebelious teens that have their own sect. But their web page is down.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meuman (Hebrew: נ נח נחמ נחמן מאומן) is a Hebrew language mantra used by some sub-groups of the Breslov group of Hasidic Jews. The complete phrase is Na Nach Nachma Nachman Me'uman. It is a sound-poem based on the four Hebrew letters of the name Nachman, referring to the founder of the Breslov movement, Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, along with a reference to his burial place in Uman, Ukraine.
Contents


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• <LI class=toclevel-1>1 History of the mantra <LI class=toclevel-1>2 Pronunciation and meaning of the phrase <LI class=toclevel-1>3 Controversies <LI class=toclevel-1>4 Popularity of the mantra today <LI class=toclevel-1>5 External links
• 6 Sources

[edit] History of the mantra


Rabbi Yisroel Odesser, teacher of the Na Nach Nachma mantra. Died in 1994 and was buried in Jerusalem.


Although Na Nach Nachma is based on the name of Rebbe Nachman, he himself did not use it, and it was unknown in his day. However, he did say that repeating one word over and over was an effective form of meditation (Likutei Moharan Tinyana #96). His own personal mantra was Ribono shel Olam (Master of the Universe) which he pronounced with the Yiddish intonation as: Ree-BOY-noy shell OY-lahm. Many Breslover Hasidim today still prefer this mantra.
The Na Nach Nachma phrase was "revealed" and taught by Rabbi Yisroel Ber Odesser, a controversial Breslov figure in the 20th century. Odesser was born in 1895 in Tiberias, Israel. He was among the first Breslover Hasidim in Israel, having learned about the movement from Rabbi Yisroel Halpern when he was a young yeshiva student. Odesser's parents, who were Karliner Hasidim, strongly opposed his joining the Breslov movement, and worked hard to discourage him. Young Odesser went through many hardships, but he remained steadfast to the Breslov way.
When he was 26 years old, Odesser was overcome with weakness and hunger on the Fast of Tammuz. He decided to eat. But immediately after eating, he felt great sorrow at having succumbed to his own physical temptations. After five continuous days of prayer, a powerful thought came to him: "Go into your room!" He obeyed the inner voice, went to the bookcase, and randomly opened a book. In the book was a piece of paper that he would later call "The Letter from Heaven." The paper contained a greeting, some text that referred to the Fast of Tammuz, and the Na Nach Nachma mantra. It read as follows:

It was very hard for me to descend to you, my precious student, to tell you that I benefited greatly from your service. And to you I say, my fire will burn until the coming of the Messiah — be strong and courageous in your service — Na Nach Nachma Nachman Me'Uman. And with this I shall tell you a secret: Full and heaped up from line to line, and with strong devotional service you will understand it. And the sign is: They will say you are not fasting on the 17th of Tammuz.

Odesser believed the letter to be a message of consolation, directly from Rebbe Nachman's spirit to himself here on earth. Odesser adopted Na Nach Nachma as his personal meditation, and became so totally identified with it that he later said, "I am Na Nach Nachma Nachman Me'Uman." (This quote appears on Odesser's tombstone in Jerusalem.)

[edit] Pronunciation and meaning of the phrase


During his lifetime, Rebbe Nachman spoke of a "Song of Redemption" that would be revealed before the coming of the Jewish Messiah. This song would be in a "single, double, triple, quadruple" form. (Likutei Moharan II, #8). The Na Nach Nachma phrase has such a structure (keeping in mind that Hebrew often omits the vowels):

• Na (one Hebrew letter: Nun) -- נ

• NaCH (Two Hebrew letters: Nun-Chet) -- נח

• NaCHMa (Three Hebrew letters: Nun-Chet-Mem) -- נחמ

• NaCHMaN (Four Hebrew letters: Nun-Chet-Mem-Nun) -- נחמן

• Me'Uman (a double entendre: it can mean "from Uman" -- Rebbe Nachman's burial place and can also mean "believed" or "accredited.") -- מאומן

The mantra is pronounced with a soft A sound as in "ah" and a guttural KH sound as in German "ach." It is usually accented as follows:
Nah-nakh-nakhmah-nakhman-meh-oo-mahn.
Speakers of Yiddish and German have also noted that na nach can mean "now to," which would loosely translate the phrase as "Now to Nachman from Uman," that is, traveling to the Rebbe on pilgrimage to his gravesite or in one's heart.

[edit] Controversies

Not all Breslover Hasidim use Na Nach Nachma (some groups actually oppose it) and not everyone believes it is an authentic writing from Rebbe Nachman. The following are some of the diverse opinions:

Cover of Rav Odesser's book, showing the petek (note).

• Rabbi Odesser believed the "Letter from Heaven" was a genuine miracle, pointing out that the bookcase where the petek (note) appeared was locked at the time, and he had the only key. His followers believed in the miracle also. They continue to this day to chant the phrase as a "Song of Redemption" for the coming of the Jewish Messiah. Odesser's personal account of how he found the Letter has been translated into English under the title The Letter from Heaven: Rebbe Nachman's Song.

• In May 1984, Rabbi Moshe Feinstein wrote a letter of approbation, endorsing Odesser's efforts to raise funds for publishing Rebbe Nachman's books. In this document, Feinstein said: "I am writing on behalf of a most unusual individual, Rabbi Yisroel Dov Odesser, shlita, from Israel. This individual is a gaon of Torah. I had the pleasure of recently meeting with him and was inspired by a secret document which he possesses." This seems to imply that Rabbi Feinstein thought the letter was authentic, although he did not explicitly say so. (The Letter from Heaven: Rebbe Nachman's Song, p. 2)

• Some people believe that the letter was a note written to someone by Rebbe Nachman when he visited Tiberias during his pilgrimage to Israel in the early 19th century. Somehow it was placed in the old book, but Odesser's finding it was a coincidence (or miracle of timing), as was the reference to someone eating on the Fast of Tammuz.

• Still others believe it was a well-intentioned forgery, written by one of Rabbi Odesser's fellow students in order to cheer him up after he got depressed from breaking his fast. (See The Writing on the Wall, which expresses this opinion.)

[edit] Popularity of the mantra today


Typical white "Na Nacher" style yarmulke with the mantra woven into it. Made in Jerusalem in 2005


Whatever the origins of this mantra, it is now very popular among certain sub-groups of Breslover Hasidim, and has been incorporated into both traditional and contemporary Jewish music. During the millennium fervor before the Year 2000, the Na Nach Nachma was widely distributed and publicized in Israel, appearing on bumper stickers, billboards, graffiti, etc. It has also been used on jewellery and amulets.
More recently, some people have begun to wear it on large white knitted yarmulkes with a little tassel on top. (These hats are a modification of a traditional white yarmulke that has been worn in Jerusalem for centuries. That style, in turn, apparently evolved from the medieval Jewish hat with the ball on top -- hence the tassel.) During the time that Reb Odesser was still alive, some of his followers were already wearing large white yarmulkes, but without the mantra on them. Na Nach Nachma yarmulkes in other colors are also appearing on the market now.
The mantra continues to be chanted by both Hasidic and non-Hasidic Jews, as well as some non-Jews who use it as a form of kabbalah meditation. Those who chant it are sometimes referred to as "Na-Nachers". Among some groups of Sephardic Jewish youth in Israel, it has become a sort of rallying cry for returning to traditional Judaism, although not necessarily to mainstream Breslov.

[chette777]

and still more to know about NA Nach

The Na Nach "movement" was started by a group of French baalei teshuvah who discovered an elderly Breslover Chassid named Rabbi Yisrael Ber Odesser z"l in an old age home in Eretz Yisrael. When they heard his story about having received a "petek" or letter from Rebbe Nachman when he was a bochur in Slonimer Yeshivah, they believed Reb Yisrael Ber and began to disseminate the now-famous petek and the "mantra" it contained: "Na Nach Nachma Nachman me-Uman!"

This is evidently based upon the Shem be-Achorayim, which the Rebbe mentions in Likkutei Moharan II, 8 (the last lesson the Rebbe gave, also known as "Tiku / Tochakhah"). Whoever invented the petek substituted the Rebbe's name for the Shem HaVaYaH and added "me-Uman."

I was personally told by Rav Zvi Ashkenazi, a Slonimer Chassid and one of the leading shochtim u'bodkim in America, that his grandfather had written the petek and tucked it into one of Reb Yisrael Ber's seforim as a childish prank. But when he told his extremely devout and temimusdikeh classmate that it was a joke, Reb Yisrael Ber refused to believe him. (Which shows you the danger of letzonus!)

The Na Nach group is a totally marginal phenomenon in Breslov today and not one Breslover gadol buys the business of the petek. But for these kids, the Na Nach sect with its rejection of middle class culture and its pursuit of electric niggunim ecstacy is a way to express themselves in a religious world that for one reason or another they can't relate to.

Being strongly committed to the Breslov mesorah, I can't endorse the Na Nach thing; but I also can't negate a movement that keeps many kids basically within the geder of Yiddishkeit, and which doesn't seem to be doing any major harm that I know about. Reb Yisrael Ber also left a small fortune of money that people gave him to publish the Breslover seforim, and his group has probably done more to publish and disseminate these books than anyone in Breslov history. If the Na Nachs would turn down their amplifiers in Uman I might be even more liberal-minded about them -- but as the saying goes, "that will be the day!

this info and more can be found on www.asimplejew.com

[chette777]

I watched the video link you gave. the person give a lots of statements especially from the time after Christ. But no proof like what Egyptian, Babylonian, Hindu, Bhudist records were these statements represented. what Hyrglyphics he did show in the video have no reference to any of the Horus Seth belief.

A good documentary will show it's proofs not just make statements. there is no proof any person or god he mentions ever rose from the dead. our word had over fivehundred witnesses to it. and many know it because that same life lives in them today.

Does the mother son god worship go back to Ancient times? yes indeed. Mystery Babylon the Mother of all harlots and Abominations in the English Bible it is preserved for us to see. as far back as the tower of babel this type of worship has been going on.

But Jesus Christ is the only true Son of God and we will all soon see.

but this video had nothing to do with the Na Nach sect of Jews as Stephanos led us to think. Finish Hysops book and you will learn alot more than that.

[chette777]

Tell the man you are talking with. one he should concider all teh facts before choosing to no longer to continue in the grace of our Lord.

Any good bible study will reveal Christ was not born on Dec 25th. that is a Roman Catholic fabrication.

most of his post assencion proofs of many son and mother virgins and the son with names liken to Christ. were put on and in place of most of the relegions by Roman Catholic Priests in those areas including south america.

the video has made a good case against Roman Catholicism but not against true Biblical Christianity.

[stephanos]

Is that stuff straight out of wikipedia? There is a lot more to them than that. Anywho, my point of the video was to show that some of them are ex Christians who now think Christianity is pagan. Orthodox Judaism has a seductive spirit about it, and I sure wish someone with the knowledge would counter these wannabe jews (the Hebrew Roots Movement folks) as well as the real jews who doubt Christ (although Dr. Brown at http://www.realmessiah.com/answers.htm does a real good job at that.

Anywho, I know well enough the influence the Papists have had on the faith which was once delivered unto the saints, I am Anabaptist after all. I guess what my point is is that it would be good to see Christians doing battle with these principalities of darkness instead of preaching to the choir. These guys on youtube are putting out video after video while we just keep to ourselves. Maybe someday, Lord willing, I'll have the knowledge needed to speak with these folks like Dr. Brown does (His debate with Rabbi Tovia Singer was really good).

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

[chette777]

some of the suff is but the rest is from the a simple jew web site.

regardless it is better to give some info about it so people can see what it is without having to web search.

I'll hold my tongue on your Anabaptist statement.