Bible Studies Post and discuss short Bible studies.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-11-2009, 05:20 PM
Steve Schwenke
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pastors/Shepherds???

I would like to discuss this idea.

THis was from Diligent in the I Cor. 3:16-17 thread:
Quote:
You are not in a church, you are in a forum. And nobody here usurps Christ's role as shepherd of his flock. You imply above that you are somehow in a position to be a shepherd here. Pretty strange.

Read 1Pe 5:1-4 in the King James Version. The flock is God's, and the elders are to feed it, not act as lords over it. Only modern versions tell elders to shepherd the flock.
I am not interested in responding to the attack made in the first paragraph, although Diligent misunderstood my point made via illustration.

Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
What is a pastor?
Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

It looks to me that a Pastor IS a shepherd by definition. consider Webster's 1828:
Pastor - noun
1. A shepherd; one that has the care of flocks and herds
2. A minister of the gospel who has the charge of the church and congregation, whose duty it is to watch over the people of his charge, and instruct them in the sacred doctrines of the Christian religion.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

So we ARE pastors...

I Peter 5:1 ∂ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over Godís heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 ∂ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

It appears to me from this passage that the elders are to feed and lead the flock (sheep!) just as a shepherd would. The appeal is that we are to treat the flock as the Great Shepherd would; in other words, we are shepherds underneath the chief shepherd.
We are not cattle-drivers; we are shepherds.

I am curious to hear from others on this subject.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #2  
Old 07-11-2009, 06:13 PM
Brother Tim's Avatar
Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 864
Default

I think of myself not as a shepherd, but as a senior sheep. I have learned to watch the Shepherd as He shows me where the better grass is and where the waters flow safe. I encourage the younger sheep to follow me as I follow the Shepherd, thus being an "ensample" to the flock. Remember the unique meaning of the word "ensample" versus "example".
  #3  
Old 07-11-2009, 08:34 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

Quote:
Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
No, it is scriptural. However I do think this applies to a local body of believers.

My old pastor used to complain a little about these TV preachers. Folks would send off their money and write letters for help. He used to say, "Try calling one of these fellows when you are in the hospital and see if he shows up!"
  #4  
Old 07-11-2009, 10:05 PM
Steve Schwenke
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
No, it is scriptural. However I do think this applies to a local body of believers.

My old pastor used to complain a little about these TV preachers. Folks would send off their money and write letters for help. He used to say, "Try calling one of these fellows when you are in the hospital and see if he shows up!"
  #5  
Old 07-12-2009, 01:43 AM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke View Post
I would like to discuss this idea.

THis was from Diligent in the I Cor. 3:16-17 thread:


I am not interested in responding to the attack made in the first paragraph, although Diligent misunderstood my point made via illustration.

Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
What is a pastor?
Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

It looks to me that a Pastor IS a shepherd by definition. consider Webster's 1828:
Pastor - noun
1. A shepherd; one that has the care of flocks and herds
2. A minister of the gospel who has the charge of the church and congregation, whose duty it is to watch over the people of his charge, and instruct them in the sacred doctrines of the Christian religion.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

So we ARE pastors...

I Peter 5:1 ∂ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over Godís heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 ∂ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

It appears to me from this passage that the elders are to feed and lead the flock (sheep!) just as a shepherd would. The appeal is that we are to treat the flock as the Great Shepherd would; in other words, we are shepherds underneath the chief shepherd.
We are not cattle-drivers; we are shepherds.

I am curious to hear from others on this subject.
Steve, I think the point Brandon tried to make that was seen as an "attack", which was not an "attack", is that this whole website is not a "church" in the traditional sense. It's an "ecclesia", a gathering, of believers in Jesus Christ, yes, it is a "church" in a way, but Brandon Stagg's is the "pastor" of this group. His daily bread, all or part, is earned by his authorship of the SWORDSEARCHER KJV Bible program, which this forum is one part of the website for. This website and it's moderation method is entirely within Scripture and within the laws of capitalism: We do not contribute financially to the upkeep of this site, we are all guests by Brandon's grace. This whole website is a private venture and not subject to a rule by a "deacon's board". I have no problems with Brandon's moderation of this forum, he has made a widely diverse group of people welcome to a forum, but when he has to rule with an iron hand he's on it like white on rice. There are some Christians on this forum who are new Christians or not fully grounded in God's word, and Brandon does not allow Lawkeepers, Unitarians, Universalists, cults, and most of all, those who criticize and "correct" the word of God, to impair or cast doubt in these young Christian's growth, and for that I think I am most grateful to him for in moderation. We have as forum members Matthew from Austrailia(Bibleprotector), Will Kenney, and George Andersen, three of the top sources for information on defense of the KJV.

My point is that this forum is not a Baptist church, it's private property. many on the forum are users of the SWORDSWEARCHER program. The free ONLINE BIBLE program has a neat, almost instantaneous word search feature, the free E-SWORD program has multiple corrupt version feature, but for pure KJV Bible study there is no finer computer program, free or commercial,, than SWORDSEARCHER. Another feature of this website is that it provides links and much study material for the defense of the KJV as inspired Scripture.

This forum does not need multiple moderation. Brandon has done, is now, and will continue to do a good job, so I see no need for multiple moderation. He has his standards of rule, many I agree with, and most of all he protects his members and stands up for them, particularly, as mentioned before, the new Christians and those not fully grounded yet.

Grace and peace brother

Tony
  #6  
Old 07-12-2009, 07:09 AM
Steve Schwenke
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tony, I am not sure where you are coming from.
I was accused of "reading people's hearts..." etc in the I Cor. 3 thread.
I responded that as a Pastor (which I am) I am in a position where I must make judgment on a continual basis. I never said that I was a pastor or the pastor on this forum. I have no idea where you and Brandon got that thought. I was making an illustration.

I find it interesting that Brandon can (falsely) accuse me of trying to "pastor" on this forum, while he gets to be the "pastor." hmmm - not sure I follow that!
If you had read my original post in response to Brandon on the I Cor. 3 thread, I have already addressed this! I was making an illustration. I guess there are too many people on this forum that have "kneejerk" reactions, without any regard to anyone but their "buddies."
I am here for the edification.

Now,
How does your response answer my OP?
My OP is about the leadership in a local church.
Brandon says that it is only the new versions that say that a pastor "shepherds" a church. I disagree. The word "pastor" means "shepherd" so by definition we are shepherds, and as such must "shepherd" the church.
  #7  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:49 PM
Biblestudent's Avatar
Biblestudent Biblestudent is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Posts: 662
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
We do not contribute financially to the upkeep of this site, we are all guests by Brandon's grace. This whole website is a private venture and not subject to a rule by a "deacon's board". I have no problems with Brandon's moderation of this forum, he has made a widely diverse group of people welcome to a forum, but when he has to rule with an iron hand he's on it like white on rice.
This makes me better understand the feelings of our diligent moderator. Thanks!
  #8  
Old 07-14-2009, 10:22 AM
Blessed2BeeAlive's Avatar
Blessed2BeeAlive Blessed2BeeAlive is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: AZ4ME
Posts: 2
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke View Post

Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
What is a pastor?


Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

It looks to me that a Pastor IS a shepherd by definition. consider Webster's 1828:
Pastor - noun
1. A shepherd; one that has the care of flocks and herds
2. A minister of the gospel who has the charge of the church and congregation, whose duty it is to watch over the people of his charge, and instruct them in the sacred doctrines of the Christian religion.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

So we ARE pastors...

I Peter 5:1 ∂ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over Godís heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 ∂ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

It appears to me from this passage that the elders are to feed and lead the flock (sheep!) just as a shepherd would. The appeal is that we are to treat the flock as the Great Shepherd would; in other words, we are shepherds underneath the chief shepherd.

We are not cattle-drivers; we are shepherds.

I am curious to hear from others on this subject.
I believe it is pretty plain & simple & to the point.
The Shephard (Pastor) is to watch over his sheep, to feed & to care for them.

I find this verse very interesting:
Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

I do not know what makes a shepherd do this: after all I believe that it is the Lord that adds to the church, so why would the shepherd subtract from the church?

We are all members of one body, so this Bible verse is very interesting
:
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

I believe we are to edify & love one-another, that the members may grow & understand how we are expected to be Christ-like in our walk.
  #9  
Old 07-15-2009, 01:14 PM
Forrest's Avatar
Forrest Forrest is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 597
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke View Post
I would like to discuss this idea.

THis was from Diligent in the I Cor. 3:16-17 thread:


I am not interested in responding to the attack made in the first paragraph, although Diligent misunderstood my point made via illustration.

Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
What is a pastor?
Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

It looks to me that a Pastor IS a shepherd by definition. consider Webster's 1828:
Pastor - noun
1. A shepherd; one that has the care of flocks and herds
2. A minister of the gospel who has the charge of the church and congregation, whose duty it is to watch over the people of his charge, and instruct them in the sacred doctrines of the Christian religion.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

So we ARE pastors...

I Peter 5:1 ∂ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over Godís heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 ∂ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

It appears to me from this passage that the elders are to feed and lead the flock (sheep!) just as a shepherd would. The appeal is that we are to treat the flock as the Great Shepherd would; in other words, we are shepherds underneath the chief shepherd.
We are not cattle-drivers; we are shepherds.

I am curious to hear from others on this subject.
It seems to me the scripture is clear who the SHEPHERD is and whose FLOCK it is.

Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

I Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

3 Neither as being lords over Godís heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

I guess verse 4 is where the idea comes from that since Jesus is the chief Shepherd, the Pastor must be the plain ole shepherd. But I do not see scripture ever referring to a pastor as a shepherd. That's a stretch in my understanding. I agree though, the Bible is clear...feed the flock.
  #10  
Old 07-16-2009, 12:57 AM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biblestudent View Post
This makes me better understand the feelings of our diligent moderator. Thanks!
You're welcome my friend. I suppose I'll be known as a "Staggsite" now. No problem.

First, we all know Brandon can take care of himself, but I'm going to speak for a friend and brother when I feel led to, and this time was one I was led to.

I found the author of this thread to be very subtle and then flat deny his insinuations when confronted with clear dissertation. The entire gist of the message was that Brandon was not moderating the forum in that there seemed to be doctrines taught here the author of the thread didn't care for. So we need a "board" of moderators. Right.

This is the forum for the SWORDSEARCHER Bible program's website, a commercial product, and not subject to any democratic perambulations. This is a private website. At the same time the moderator has governed it in a fair and Scriptural manner. Those who "correct" the Scriptures or teach false doctrine are disciplined with the methods of the moderator's discretion. That goes for me as much as it did for Tandi and Nehemiah. Otherwise, we are free to spread our wings so to speak, teach, be taught, and comment. I love it here. I just need a computer that works dependably.

Grace and peace my friend

Tony
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletinģ, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com