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Old 08-13-2008, 10:34 AM
M Paul
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Oh, so when Paul says in I Cor. 3:1-4, that the Corinthians were milk-fed babes in Christ, that means they were not saved at all?? And when he says their being prone to strife proved they were of the flesh, he means a Christian in strife is not a Christian at all??

But then, what if 2:12 doesn't refer to salvation but spiritual gifts? Paul previews what he will review in the epistle in the first chapter, and notes spiritual gifts at v.7. Later he does teach in detail on spiritual gifts. But only after getting them to realize, that teaching on the gifts of the spirit requires spiritual maturity, even avoiding strife over gifts. 2:15 says the spiritual man judges all things but is judged by no one. Does Paul have reason to defend himself to the Corinthians? Did super teacher come along after his first experience with this church and accuse him of not meeting his true responsibility as a teacher in reviewing initially the gifts? At 12:12-47 and chp 13, is Paul telling them that after learning about spiritual gifts, they have to exercise maturity?? And if they don't, does that mean they are not saved or are merely "natural man" Christians??

Paul delayed teaching to the Corinthians on certain subjects not because they were not saved, but because they were not mature -- II Cor. 12:20.

But I realize that some Christians want to believe that I Cor. 2:14 only refers to salvation. That's what the Baptists taught me. But I had to give that interpretation up, as it does not make sense with the rest of the epistle. I do agree with the principle, as it is found in Acts 16:14, but that is not what the Corinthians verse is about.

At I Cor. 12:31, Paul tells the Corinthians to covet the best gifts. I don't think he means they should covet salvation at that point. At Ephesians 4:11, he notes evangelism as a gift.

But thank you for expressing your opinion. I merely agree to disagree with you.

M Paul
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:40 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
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Posts: 645

Point Number 1
At what point in my post did I mention Milk fed "babes in Christ" being unsaved?
Natural man is UNSAVED MAN! Paul is telling the Church of Corinth that those that are saved, Born Again and have the ability to understand Gods Word. Unsaved man cannot because he does not have the Holy Spirit as a teacher.
He is talking about to completely different groups of people "babes in Christ" New believers at the Church Of Corinth and unsaved heathens "Natural man"
Paul is talking about Spiritual BLINDNESS! and whenever this is spoken of, its spoken about UNSAVED MAN!
Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Ephesians 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Point Number 2
In reference to 1st cor 1:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
I mentioned nothing about this meaning salvation, but that it referred to the TEACHING of the Holy Spirit. Paul is telling the Church of Corinth about Learning by Guidance of the spirit and Growing in the LORD

As for 2:14
It makes Perfect sense with the rest of the Epistle

Natural man, is Unsaved man, he cannot be taught the things of the Spirit.

Of course Evangelist, teacher and Pastor are Gifts, I never once mentioned they were not, I stated that they are for an individual "calling" not all this anointing business. Todd Bently relies on that word "anointing" a great deal, and he most certainly isn't doing the work of the LORD Jesus Christ.

In My Saviour's name, The LORD Jesus Christ
Old 08-14-2008, 05:19 AM
M Paul
Posts: n/a

Well, I'd like to ask you to reconsider what I Cor. 2:14 is about. Remember chapter divisions were added after the invention of printing. Therefore, the first verses of chapter three continue the thought of the ending of chapter two.

Then the question arises from the first verses of chapter three -- What is it that Paul could not speak to the Corinthians about, because they were not spiritual enough, because they were still of the flesh. He knew they were heavy into worldly wisdom, and that they quickly got into strife as a result. The first verses of chapter three are actually a continuation of his defense at 2:15, that because he is spiritual he does not have to answer to them.

I don't think it's salvation that he could not talk them about because they were too much "natural men." It can be assumed the Corinthians are already saved when the epistles are written. In the first chapter he indicates gifts will be one theme of the epistle, and he covers it in detail by chapter 12, but only with taking great care to advise them to handle gifts maturely.

In other words, gifts are a problem for new believers, who really don't yet understand how to be spiritual, because they are still focused on worldly ways. And they cannot be taught about gifts until they learn more about how to be spiritual, more about how to compare spiritual things with spiritual. That thought on comparing the spiritual to the spiritual from 2:13 emphasizes how once we receive gifts we have to understand them as something we experience through our relationship with the Holy Spirit, not as something we learn about in a book.

So at any rate -- I look at things differently than you, but to each his own.

M Paul
Old 08-14-2008, 09:11 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 645

I fear that you are focused more on "gifts" than you are on "word".
I have no need to reconsider what 1st Corinthians 2:14 is about, regardless of chapter and verse breaks, Its CLEARLY about natural man, unsaved man not being able to understand the things of the spirit (natural man can understand salvation, but not the teaching of the SPIRIT OF TRUTH)

Peter speaking of false prophets and their followers "natural brute beasts"
2 Peter 2:12,13
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

Clearly here Peter says natural brute is someone who does not understand or is unreasonable.

James 1:23-24
For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Adam was not saved and here Paul Speaks of Adam being natural and being saved by the LORD Jesus Christ is spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:45-50
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Two very clear distinctions between natural, earthy, unsaved, and spiritual (Saved)

Penalty Of Sin for natural man
Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

I pray that any other Brother on this site that can explain that natural man is unsaved better than this wretch that I am can , then In My LORD Jesus Christ's name I ask you please do.

M Paul, I shall not debate with you any further on the issue My Friend, But I simply wish to have the input of a third party at least for my own understanding.

In My Saviour's name, The LORD Jesus Christ.
Old 08-21-2008, 03:43 AM
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Humanism. That's your answer. Humanism has slipped into our churches. So somewhere back in the Baptist church in the senario you gave, the pastor didn't confront the false teaching, but here is the kicker. That pastor may have been humanistically trained at his Bible College or seminary and didn't even now it. Fundimentalism's articles of faith became a litmis test for salvation. If you believe all the points, you have to be saved. This isn't the case. Paul believed all the points in his religion, but missed the biggest one until the Road to Dimascus.

Some of the most "spiritual" people in yours, mine, and many other churches may be living a performance based Christian life. They are whited seplicures without even knowing it sometimes. The Bible says that there will be few that find the narrow way. Does it not. Religious living is a very sneaky false teaching. Paul battled it in all his churches; especially Galacia. He asked are you soon so far removed. So decades ago churches allowed humanistic beliefs to enter their churches.

What is humanistic thinking? "I think" "I feel" compaired to "the Bible Says" "God says".
Old 08-21-2008, 01:55 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 597
Default Jesus said...

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew 7:13-14).

Keep preaching the Word!

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