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Old 08-11-2008, 07:20 PM
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swordsman swordsman is offline
 
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Default Whose fault is it?

Hell everyone I have a question that I would like your take on...


Going door to door I meet a LOT of people and we discuss the scriptures, salvation etc..

This has happened to me too many times to count.

Go to someones house and discuss Christianity and here is how the discussion goes...

Q: What church do you attend?

A: Oh we attend so and so baptist church, we have been going there about 20 years.(smiling and making eye contact the whole time)

Q: Thats great..so you are saved and you know you are going to heaven?

A; Oh yes we are saved and baptized, even taught Sunday school, been going there for about 20 years.(still smiling and eye contact is still on)

Q: Well its great to hear that its good to see someone faithful in the support of their church ( their smile broadens)

By the way can you tell me how to be saved?

A: ( eyes shift to the left...right...down..any direction but yours, smile went the way of the $2 bill)

Uh.....ummmm....welllll you have to be a good person...and um believe in Jesus Christ...and yes, yes go to church. I was baptized...I have been going every Sunday and Wednesday for 20 years.

Tentative smile, still no eye contact, feet shuffling and they make a break away to do something they forgot.


Out of talking to around 100 people ,maybe 2 can give a decent explanation on salvation and none have any knowledge of anything else except their "feelings".

Whose fault is it?

The church?
The church member?
The Pastor?
Lack understanding of their Bible?
Me for asking?


What do you think, I know I can not be the only one seeing this...
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:49 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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A combination of them all except the last sadly. I personally blame the ecumenical movement, where Salvation and Soulwinning is preached less and less and "lets all get along" is preached more and more. Social Gospel has overtaken "Word" in many many churches and the grasp of the Holy Scripture in reference to saving someones precious soul is a rarity in many professed Christians. Personally, I believe its the mixture of different Bibles, Folks are hearing something read out that dosent quite match what their Bible says and then they ask the person beside them what theirs says and finds again that its also different! As a "babe in Christ" this only can lead to confusion over His Holy Word. Confusion about what you are reading certainly wont inspire confidence to preach that Saving Grace of Our LORD to someone else.
Preach the SAME THING, read the SAME THING.... No Division.

I am not as Mighty in Scripture as some, But I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me!!

In My Redeemers name. The LORD Jesus Christ.
  #3  
Old 08-12-2008, 11:22 AM
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Cody1611 Cody1611 is offline
 
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I would say the pastor's fault and if not the pastor it is their own fault for not listening in church or reading their Bible.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:38 PM
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swordsman swordsman is offline
 
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Default Whose fault is it?

Believe me I have seen this and heard of this everywhere. It like they listen to sermons and retain nothing because they lead no one to Christ THAT is what church is for. Invite someone to church yes, lead them to Christ no.
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:22 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Sadly people go to Church to be entertained now more than they go to listen to the Gospel.

Just noticed that you forgot the o in Hello in your First post lol. Im certain this is a typo but quite ironic considering the forum this is hehe. You can only edit posts 5 mins after posting I think.

In My Saviour's name, Jesus Christ.

Last edited by peopleoftheway; 08-12-2008 at 03:24 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:30 PM
M Paul
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Knowing how to witness to someone about the salvation of Jesus Christ requires an anointing. But very often anointings require giving up looking at life as a natural man, as a person of the world. And Christians who want to retain a natural man perspective, those who never will leave a milk-fed diet, rise in authority in the church and become teachers. The more influence they have, the more confusing things become, and a lot about being spiritual gets lost.

Christians who understand how to witness under an anointing are attacked by "natural man" church leaders... like the Pharisees who said Jesus was influenced by Satan. Eventually, circumstances develop that even the basics on what is involved with telling someone about salvation cannot be taught, as even the church leadership doesn't understand what is involved well enough. (Circumstances?? -- coming out of "natural man" Christians who are quite jealous of anyone who has a spiritual anointing).

But it's the anointing that counts. We have to pray for the anointing, even when that means having to acquire a whole new way of thinking about life and the world.

M Paul
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:32 PM
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Default Whose fault is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post

Just noticed that you forgot the o in Hello in your First post lol. Im certain this is a typo but quite ironic considering the forum this is hehe. You can only edit posts 5 mins after posting I think.

In My Saviour's name, Jesus Christ.

That was a typo... sorry
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:05 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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M Paul, do you belong to a charismatic Church my friend ?
Explain this anointing you speak of with scripture so I may understand better what you mean.

In my Saviour's name, The LORD Jesus Christ.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:50 AM
M Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
M Paul, do you belong to a charismatic Church my friend ?
Explain this anointing you speak of with scripture so I may understand better what you mean.
No, I am not at all Charismatic. I am a Classical Pentecostal. But do you believe Billy Graham was anointed?? I do. (However, I really don't think that much about being Pentecostal anymore. I have had a lot of association with Baptists in the past, which then made me focus on what it really means to be Pentecostal, but that was a while back).

Do you believe the KJV is anointed. I do. It's very obvious, looking at all it has meant over the centuries. What other English bible has anything that comes close?? But it was "natural man" Chrisitianity that wanted to destroy its anointing, by upholding a new Greek text and a new theory of translation as established by a worldly sense of scholarship. No, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with scholarship...but I am saying that the consequences of using it in a worldly way and for worldly objectives, rather than spiritual, is not actually a Christian pursuit of the truth.

However, how a Christian understands what an anointing is can and does vary from one perspective to another, and my opinion is, that not all of them are correct. But it is important in starting off on trying to understand what is involved in explaining salvation to others, that it is the anointing that counts.

M Paul
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:32 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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John said all those that were saved had an annointing from the Holy Spirit
1st John 2:
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Now the Spirit of Truth abides in us and teaches us all things

Christ told us in John 14:16 that the Spirit would abide in us
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Not sometimes, occasionally, when called for etc, but Forever

Paul speaks of the Holy Spirit Teaching those Born again about spiritual things
and that "natural man" (Unsaved man) could not discern these teachings because anyone that is not saved has not received the Holy Spirit of God
1st Cor 2:12,13,14

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

All true, Born again Christians have the ability through Christs word to lead another to Christ, if only they allow themselves to be taught by the Holy Spirit, and that means studying and rightly dividing the truth. Knowing the verses that explain salvation in all its simplicity.
Just because you give someone the Gospel of Christ and they say, "no thank you, its not for me" does not mean that a seed has not been planted. If everyone that was supposed to be saved from your witnessing to them was saved, right there and then, in your presence, you would have a count. If you have a count then self righteousness may creep in and you may boast.
James 3:5

Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

Humble yourselves to the fact that someone you witnessed to years ago that at that time did not accept Christ, may now be a Born again Believer leading others to Christ in the same manner through a seed YOU planted.

1 corinthians 3:6
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase

As far as talking about Evangelists preaching being "annointed" more so than anyone else, I believe its more a "calling" for Evangelist, Teacher, Pastor.

Ephesians 4:11,12
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

In My Saviour's Name, The LORD Jesus Christ.
 

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