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  #11  
Old 09-03-2008, 10:55 AM
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Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
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rbratt,
If you are sincerely seeking truth about the KJB over modern versions, then you will do two things:
1 ) For your concerns about variations, continue reading your Bible, noting especially the places where the NIV differs from the KJB in meaning or by omission, and ask yourself why.
2 ) For your concerns about the history behind the KJB, read a good book that covers this topic. Here is an excellent book to start. http://av1611.com/kjbp/books/review-cwg.html
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #12  
Old 09-03-2008, 11:00 AM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rbratt View Post
Ok, forgive my ignorance please. If there are no "originals" where did the KJV get its translation from? And it seems to me (outsider looking in, but looking for the truth) that you use the same argument for the KJV. You say nothing is valid unless it comes from the KJV. But that can not be because there had to be the "perfect inspired Word of god" before the KJV to translate it into the KJV, right? So are you saying the Greek and latin translations are imperfect? If that is the case, then how can the KJV be "perfect" if there are no "originals" to compare it to?

The more I read on here, the less I understand. I guess I will stick to reading my Bible (KJV/NIV parallel btw) and find my own answers as it looks like none of my posts will get to see the actual boards.
The "original" or first manuscripts [called the Traditional or Majority text] were passed around and worn-out beyond recognition. There are no original copies.

However, original copies of the "Alexandrian manuscripts" [man's attempt to improve on the originals] were found because the early church rejected them. Original copies of this corrupted work were found because they set on a shelf, unread, and rejected by the born-again believers. The "Traditional or Majority Text", on the other hand, were received by the true believers. Copies, of copies, of copies, of copies were made because believers were hungry for the Word of God.

But didn't men make mistakes when they copied the originals and then recopied them again and again? This is where we must believe, and accept, the power and sovereignty of God, the Almighty. The issue is one of preservation. Is God able to preserve His Written Word of Truth?

“The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever” (Psalm 12:6–7).

For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven” (Psalm 119:89).

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33).

“The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever” (Isaiah 40:8).

How can we ever proclaim and teach the true meaning of Scripture without first believing God has preserved every Word?
  #13  
Old 09-03-2008, 11:59 AM
rbratt
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Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
May I ask you this, Do you believe that the Bible should have contradictions ?

Personally I don't think the Bible contradicts itself. It seems to me that if you read the context and get the full meaning that it becomes clear what was stated. ??
  #14  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:04 PM
rbratt
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Certain members of this community have already basically called me the Devil because I have real questions and am not afraid to ask them here.

My problems and concerns are valid FOR ME, and is why I am here asking. I don't think I have said anything derogatory about the KJV of the Bible. And you won't unless I really mis-word something badly.

Quote:
How can we ever proclaim and teach the true meaning of Scripture without first believing God has preserved every Word?
Ok, there is a good starting point. What is the true menaing of the Scripture? The message of salvation, right? So what difference does it make if I think Jonas was swallowed by a whale or a fish? I believe he was swallowed, and in the belly for three days. I believe God accomplished His works the way he said. Lets start with this and I will try to go from there. Maybe I started out with too many questions at first. This seems to be the heart of the matter for me.
  #15  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:41 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rbratt View Post
Ok, there is a good starting point. What is the true menaing of the Scripture? The message of salvation, right? So what difference does it make if I think Jonas was swallowed by a whale or a fish? I believe he was swallowed, and in the belly for three days.
I'm using the word Scripture to include all Scripture. "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him" (Proverbs 30:5).

In my opinion, the message of Jesus Christ is the central theme of the Bible. Redemption and salvation for all who believe, and a clear declaration of Jesus Christ's preeminence in all things. In other words, it begins, continues, and ends with Jesus Christ. Not just initial salvation, but the entire Christian life.

At this point, I really want to encourage you to, with open heart and mind, search out some of the subtle differences between the KJV and other versions and allow God the Holy Spirit to persuade you. I know He will as you continue to seek the truth. God will show you the truth in this matter.

A good start is:

http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/various.html

http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq.html

I'm not trying to avoid ongoing conversation and study. I know there are better and more adequate resources to help you resolve this issue, than me.

By the way...

"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" (Jonah 1:17).

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40).

It is important and matters because God said it.

Last edited by Forrest; 09-03-2008 at 01:59 PM.
  #16  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:02 PM
Scott Simons
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbratt View Post
Ok, forgive my ignorance please. If there are no "originals" where did the KJV get its translation from?
No one is going to tell you; go find out yourself unless you think we all just are lying to you, then do what ever you want, what can we do if you don't care to find it out.

PS King James Only people know; that is why it is so hard for you to kick against the pricks.
  #17  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:07 PM
rbratt
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Quote:
Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" (Jonah 1:17).

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40).

It is important and matters because God said it.
I understand your point here. But does it say "God said 'I prepared a whale' or is the writer of the book saying 'God prepared a whale'. That is whate matters in my opinion. The message is the same God prepared a place for Jonas.

I will continue to study. I am at work in Chicago at them moment and may have to go buy a KJV since I had counted on using the ones in the Hotel rooms but they are NKJV and since being here I don't want to use those.

And thank you for the replies, I appreciate an honest answer from people who are trying to help.
  #18  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:18 PM
rbratt
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[quote=Scott Simons;7330]
Quote:

No one is going to tell you; go find out yourself unless you think we all just are lying to you, then do what ever you want, what can we do if you don't care to find it out.

PS King James Only people know; that is why it is so hard for you to kick against the pricks.

Its not that I think you are lying. Maybe its my understanding of Jesus Christ as the Word of God and not a printed document that is the problem?

By the way, this has been an issue for me for a long time. My family just said "we don't know the answer, it's just what we believe" and that is why I came here.
  #19  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:29 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rbratt View Post
I understand your point here. But does it say "God said 'I prepared a whale' or is the writer of the book saying 'God prepared a whale'. That is whate matters in my opinion. The message is the same God prepared a place for Jonas.

I will continue to study. I am at work in Chicago at them moment and may have to go buy a KJV since I had counted on using the ones in the Hotel rooms but they are NKJV and since being here I don't want to use those.

And thank you for the replies, I appreciate an honest answer from people who are trying to help.
No, it says God prepared a great fish, which by comparing Scripture with Scripture, we understand was a whale.

We are all growing, brother.
  #20  
Old 09-03-2008, 04:40 PM
Renee Renee is offline
 
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rbratt,

If you can not believe in the inspirition of Scripture, many of The truths written in the KVB will never be revealed to you. I believe there is only one BIBLE, the others are only versions that contain God's words. I will not belabor this point as my belief is very simple in this matter. Since I came to believe in the Inspired Book, my heavenly Father has been able to keep this faith that He gives me, and teaches me daily from it.

If you have not read this post, it might be good for you to do so:

Bible Versions George #1 by S M Rajh on "The Inspiration of Scripture".

You may be pleasently surprised how the book opens up to you when you believe it. Of course like all of us some things remain a mystery, because God is not ready to reveal it to us yet.

Aloha,
Renee
 

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