[PaulB]

Originally Posted by CKG

I also meant to point that out. I see nothing wrong with someone giving 10% just like I see nothing wrong with having church on Saturday, wearing a coat and tie to church or a dozen other like things we could come up with. It's when you start trying to enforce these things on others that it becomes error.

Great quote Craig, I couldn't agree more. I have no issue with giving I am in no way looking for a "get out clause", I just wanted to hear what your convictions are so that I could know more on it.


Thanks also to everyone for all of your responses they are very helpful!

God bless

PaulB

[chette777]

I believe Abraham purposed in his heart and gave to Melchizedek.

and likewise if you are struggling with what to purpose in your heart, A tithe is a Biblical example of giving.

But Christians are not under the law to tithe. Mal 4:4 says the law was given for all Israel, the counsel at Jerusalem said they would lay none of the law upon the Gentile believers.

Paul never taught tithing as a way to give, he left that matter up to the one with the bounty and the Holy Ghost who lived in his heart.

It is prosperity theology that really pushes the tithing and offering to the limit and has caused untold damage to the faith and Christian growth of many. it is all part of the Apostasy that this age will end in.

[Jassy]

The most common Scriptures used in the church today before the "offering" music begins to play are:

Malachi 3:10 - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Mark 12 and Luke 21 talk about a poor widow who threw in or cast in "two mites."

Now apparently, this was a large sum of her income, if you go percentage-wise.

If someone throws in $1,000 and their income is only $5,000/yr. and another throws in $1,000 and their income is $50,000/yr., well who has been the most generous, percentage-wise? The $1,000 out of the $5,000 was given out of great sacrifice. The $1,000 out of the $50,000 would scarcely be noticed.

The Lord doesn't care about the amount, He cares about the HEART with which it is given. HE doesn't NEED our money!! It's all HIS anyways! Don't you think, if He is the creator and owner of all things, that He could easily supply all of our need? Of course!! He wants to see a willing heart; that's what He desires. It's all about ATTITUDE!

Since churches generally use the Old Testament scriptures quoted above to more or less "guilt" people into giving, guess who the banks' BIGGEST customers must be on Monday morning? Well, following Sunday church services, church secretaries, of course! They're eager to deposit the "tithes" into the church banking account. Nevermind if it's going into the church building fund, the missionary fund, the minister's salary, or any other part of the church "budget." How can we be so sure that our money is properly given and properly being used?

That is where we are given freedom and we must use wisdom to decide where, when and how much to give. That is our choice. I once heard that giving was out of WORSHIP of our Lord. They said that the word "worship" was originally a contraction of the words "worth" and "ship." And that we were to pay the ministers according to how much we felt they were WORTH in our Christian learning. Now I don't know if that is true or not... but it is our own choice to make, as sister Jennifer pointed out. And I agree with that.

I'm sorry that I'm so very negative and skeptical about this tithing topic. I came out of the cultist Worldwide Church of God, which taught people not only that they owed a tenth of all of their earnings to the church, but that they also must tithe an additional "tenth of a tenth" to help the poor who did not have enough income.

CONSIDER: Have you ever watched the faces of those around you, who were placing their hard-earned money into the collection plate on Sunday morning? Have you noticed the solemnity with which people associate this time in church? Have you EVER seen someone release whatever they've given into the collection place with a smile of JOY on their face? THAT, brother or sister, should be how we ALL give - yet I've never once seen a person SMILE while giving! Not ONCE!! I've seen a scowl. I've seen a smirk. I've seen a frown. I've seen a harried expression. I've seen a straight solemn expressionless face. But nary a smile.

As someone said here the Lord loves a "cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7)

Am I against giving to the church? Of course not. The early churches did take up collections on the first day of the week (Sunday), whenever Paul was NOT present, to support the ministry. Paul and the apostles did much travelling and that was not free. In addition, Paul WORKED. He was a tentmaker. He didn't expect the church to support him, nor did he require it. Yet he was thankful for whatever was given and he used it properly.

We are taught to be "good stewards" of what we are given. If a person is in debt - with credit cards - well, they ought to pay off those cards FIRST and make that a priority. If giving to the church is putting them further into debt, that's not what a person should be doing. God isn't going to magically pay-off those credit cards that have been misused! He's not going to bless you, if you've been a bad steward of what he has entrusted you with.

Yes, God does sometimes choose to bless people. Sometimes I think of it like a TEST. Will the person properly use or MISuse those resources? Will the person become narcissistic? Will the person develop an "entitlement" view?

I've known far too many Christians who, having been blessed with a fancy house, expensive cars, and new, modern furniture, fully believe that it is the end result of their faith and God's blessings upon them. They fully believe that, if you are rich, then you're reaping the blessings of your faith. If you're poor, then there's obviously something lacking in your faith. That saddens me, simply because they'll never experience the richness in faith that poverty or suffering might bring. I've seen people living in great JOY who have very little and who need very little. After all, we are told that squeezing a camel through the eye of a needle is not easy!! (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25)

I have no jealousy or hard feelings against those who have wealth. To me, that's neither here nor there in my faith. I would pray for blessings, only to do what may not be possible with my present income. I'd really love to support some foreign missionaries, to send Bibles, tracts and other literature into poverty-ridden areas of the world. To strengthen the faith of those who are in Christian-minority countries.

Lord, please bless me in that way, so that I may be a good steward of your blessings and be able to help others who are more needful. In the name of Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen. [Note: The prayer doesn't magically mean that the blessings will rain down upon me!]

Jassy

[Renee]

Mark 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

Mark 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

Mark 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

I do not believe we are comanded to tithe. If we (us personally)tithe, there would be some missioneries that would not have been helped. I believe in giving with a cheerful heart. Things get tight sometimes, but My Lord has always put food on the table, a roof over our head and clothes on our backs.

Do we need anymore?

1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

Anytime we give, big or small, before or after taxes, before or after bills, before or after food, we are only giving back part of what The Lord has given us. So Whatever we give, give cheerfully.

That is my take,and not put here for discussion. Just my two cents.

Renee

[Amanda S.]

Sister Jassy,

The most common Scriptures used in the church today before the "offering" music begins to play are:

Are there churches that actually read this Scripture before the offering?! Just curious...what types of churches are these?

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by Amanda S.

Sister Jassy,



Are there churches that actually read this Scripture before the offering?! Just curious...what types of churches are these?

That is a curious thing to be curious about.

[Jassy]

Originally Posted by Amanda S.

Sister Jassy,



Are there churches that actually read this Scripture before the offering?! Just curious...what types of churches are these?

Sis Amanda,

Yes! There are, indeed. As I've related in previous posts, and in my testimony as well, I came out of the Worldwide Church of God - there were THOUSANDS of them all over the world. And yes, they commonly used those scriptures before the offering!

These are primarily FALSE churches who do such. I wasn't intimating that the true Body of Christ would do that.

Jassy

[Amanda S.]

Since churches generally use the Old Testament scriptures quoted above to more or less "guilt" people into giving, guess who the banks' BIGGEST customers must be on Monday morning? Well, following Sunday church services, church secretaries, of course! They're eager to deposit the "tithes" into the church banking account.

Oh Jassy, this is so sad.....? As I've said before I am the daughter-in-law of a pastor, the wife of a pastor and assistant pastor...very close to pastor's families and leadership in many churches and while I've heard of this type of behaviour I've never seen anyone exibit the behaviour you are describing? Most of the pastors I know are bi-vocational and are certainly not in it for the money...
I would like to defend the churches I am associated with possibly inserted in this broad generalization...While it's despicable that there are churches out there like that, I'd would dare say that in a true Bible Believing Baptist church this is hardly the norm. But I can undestand that if you've come from a bad situation one can be touchy on many areas and I am sorry for that...

Nevermind if it's going into the church building fund, the missionary fund, the minister's salary, or any other part of the church "budget." How can we be so sure that our money is properly given and properly being used?

I would say that if you honestly cannot in good conscience trust your tithe to a church
then you need to find a church you can trust.

I've known far too many Christians who, having been blessed with a fancy house, expensive cars, and new, modern furniture, fully believe that it is the end result of their faith and God's blessings upon them. They fully believe that, if you are rich, then you're reaping the blessings of your faith. If you're poor, then there's obviously something lacking in your faith.

I do not know any true Christians like this personally, but I do know that my aunt who was in a Mennonite cult had her faith destroyed by this very teaching. They were churched for basically always being poor as they taught it was an outward sign of an inward sin. They got out of church and now she is a self professed Athiest with 8 children. Very sad situation.

We need to be careful to consider what the Bible has to say on these matters and do the best we know. The Lord will not hold us accountable for another's transgressions. If you were to give your tithes to a church and they were not good stewards of that money, if you gave as unto the Lord that is all that matters.

[Biblestudent]

No, Christians are not "commanded" to tithe.

Abraham was not commanded.
The Gentiles were not commanded.
Christians today are not commanded.

The only people "commanded" to tithe are the Hebrews, the Twelve Tribes of Israel. One tribe had no land inheritance; the tithe was given to them as the Lord commanded them.

Should Christians today tithe?

That's a different question altogether!

Answer:
1. Was Abraham commanded to tithe? No.
2. Did Abraham tithe? Yes.
3. Are Christians commanded to tithe? No.
4. Should Christians tithe? "According as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give."
5. May Christians give less than tithe? "He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly."
6. May Christians give more than tithe? "My God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
7. Are you giving your tithe? _________
8. Are you giving more than tithe? ______________
9. Am I giving?__________________

[greenbear]

I believe the practice of tithing to a church organization is unscriptural. Tithing was a Jewish law for the Jewish temple. Christianity has no temples. I understand that groups of christians need to pool some resources together to have some place to meet and to take care of expenses. Since it is also unscriptural for a local body of believers to have one main pastor over them my belief is that the ideal is that pastors, elders, deacons, should work to support their families and share the work of the ministry. I don't believe there should be a "professional" class of ministers, pastors, etc. I do believe that there are talented and faithful men that should be supported in specialized ministries, like bible translation, evangelism, missionary work, many different things. Christians should definitely give to these specialized ministries if they feel lead. I believe we should also be good stewards of our resources so we have something left to help those we come across in our daily lives who need help.

I also believe that the Lord does hold us accountable for who and what we give to.

My belief is that these denominational monoliths that are built up by the tithes of church members will continue to be operational after christians have been caught up into the air with Christ.