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Old 06-23-2009, 10:45 PM
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johnlf johnlf is offline
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Default The mustard seed

We are introduced to the mustard seed in Mat 13:31 where Jesus is presenting the "mystery parables". They are referred to as such because our Lord claimed to be revealing things "which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." Mat 13:35

They were given to the crowd, but they could not understand them because they were presented as parables. Christ spoke in parables because Israel as a nation could no longer hear God:

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Mat 13:10-17

In light of these facts, let's look at the parable:

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Mat 13:31-32

Before we begin dissecting this parable, let's look to see if we find the mustard seed anywhere else in scripture. In fact we do, in two other places:

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you

Mat 17:20


6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

Luke 17:6

So we actually have 3 places in the Gospels where the mustard seed is mentioned. Is it mentioned in these 3 places just because it is the smallest seed? Or is there something more going on here? Note that in the two examples given, the tiniest faith causes a mountain to be removed to another place, and a tree to be plucked up by the roots and planted in the sea. Now we know that a mountain is a kingdom in the Bible, but what is a tree? In fact, didn't our mustard seed in the parable grow into a tree where the birds lodged in its branches?

Do we have another tree where birds lodged in it's branches? Yes, in fact we do:

19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonied for one hour, and his thoughts troubled him. The king spake, and said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream, or the interpretation thereof, trouble thee. Belteshazzar answered and said, My lord, the dream be to them that hate thee, and the interpretation thereof to thine enemies. 20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth; 21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation: 22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth. 23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him; 24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king: 25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. 26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.

Daniel 4

So the greatest Gentile king who ever lived. Whom God revealed the entire history of future Gentile rule to is represented by a tree. And the tree is hewn down for 7 years because of its pride. Hmmmmm.

There's a lot more here that I don't have time to explore, but I suggest you do. Is the boastful Gentile Church about to be plucked up and cast into the sea? Or live out in the wilderness like a beast for 7 years? Remember, Paul warned against boasting against the branches. Is your "tithe" being used to build the future Babylon which will "become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird" ?

Revelation 18:2
Old 06-23-2009, 11:43 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
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Here is another scripture about a great tree and it seems the tree was Israel. Remember Israel is God's choice to put his kingdom on earth where the temple and sacrifices would be, and eventually the throne of his son Jesus Christ would be.

Eze 17:1 ¶ And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar:
4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
6 And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
7 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation.
8 It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.
9 Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
10 Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.

at the end of your post you mention "Tithe". Why? it had nothing at all to do with the topic at hand.

Last edited by chette777; 06-23-2009 at 11:48 PM.
Old 06-25-2009, 01:09 PM
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johnlf johnlf is offline
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Default The mustard seed


I apologize for not fully explaining where I was coming from. My intent was to make the reader ruminate over these things. So I will try to elaborate a little bit more on this subject. My position is that the Bible teaches that the Church as a whole will reject God, just as Israel did and was ultimately rejected herself. I do believe that a remnant will be saved, but we are rapidly approaching the point where that remnant is a tiny minority. What passes for Christianity today, for the most part, is nothing but pagan idolatry.

Below are the album covers of one of the most popular "Christian metal" bands:

Here are some pictures of the band:

Now seriously, can anyone honestly argue that these people are exhibiting the evidence of a Christian life and fruits. Everything we see here tells us that these people love death.

These, I contend are examples of the birds in the branches from the original parable. These guys are indistinguishable from outright satanists, yet they are claiming to be Christians. How can this be?

It can be because the time has come where people are mistaking demons for the Holy Spirit. They are receiving spirits, but those spirits are not from God.

We see the same thing happening in the Charismatic movement. People are becoming possessed by devils and attributing it to the Holy Spirit. Here are just a few examples:

Once we reject God's Word and his Holy Spirit, we will begin to open ourselves up to counterfeit spirits. These are the birds in the branches. This principle is symbolized by the events of Numbers 21:

4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. 5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us.

Doctrinally speaking, when we reject the sound doctine of the Word, and despise it as "light bread", we are opening ourselves up to doctrines of devils. These fiery serpents will "bite" us with the demonic venom of these devlish teachings and possibly even lead to demonic oppression and/or possession.
Old 06-25-2009, 09:09 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
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we already know these things are not Biblical. We don't need a replacement theology to make Parables of the nation Israel the church to know these things. However I agree with the spiritual application in them that you have pointed out.

I have seen a lot worse than the photo's you posted.

If they are saved people they have a lot of accountability to the Lord at the Judgement seat of Christ. Your should take that band and hold them up in earnest prayer that God would show them the truth and they would turn from their errors.
Old 06-26-2009, 06:21 AM
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johnlf johnlf is offline
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I'm not sure you are understanding what I'm saying. Replacement theology is the furthest thing from what I'm teaching. What I'm teaching is that the Church will be rejected and be replaced by Israel in the plan of God, not that the Church will replace Israel, which is what replacement theology teaches.
Old 06-26-2009, 06:04 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
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I understand it. but you interpreted the Parables as being the church today by placing Nebuchadnezzar inline with it and then saying the tree was a gentile king and then applying all the scriptures to the church today. In placing those scriptures together and then making your statements you tied it to Paul's teaching to the church. you literally replaced The fact that the Kingdom is Israel with the church being prideful in the last days .

So the subtle replacement of Israel with the the church (which is both Jews and Gentiles) may not have been your intent but it is there. RC and Covenant theologists would have loved it because they replace Israel with the church. But we are told to: 2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. If you were rightly dividing instead of wrongly uniting scriptures you could taught it correctly as Israel and then showed the application to the church today for the churches edification.

I am not saying what you shared was not a truth. it was just how you went about to express the truth by uniting scriptures together to formulate your idea that takes on the form of Replacement Theology.

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