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  #91  
Old 03-12-2009, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
...God Himself has already given them very clear view of hell in His Holy Word, hasn't he? I think there is a chance that deep down, even the unsaved are actually somewhat aware of hell among other things...

"For the wrath of God is REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath SHEWED IT unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse..." Rom. 1:18-20
Agreed, the unsaved even use the very word "hell" in their vocabulary.

I guess what I'm trying to get across here is that I don't think God uses supernatural/paranormal experiences to lead men to Christ, such as near-death cases. Sure, He might shake up the reality of some people through bad accidents and funerals, etc, but give them a vision of heaven or hell? I just don't believe it. It could always be the Devil they're seeing as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14)??
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  #92  
Old 03-12-2009, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian View Post
Sure, He might shake up the reality of some people through bad accidents and funerals, etc, but give them a vision of heaven or hell? I just don't believe it.
Hmmm, that would make sense if it was just a vision, but the book does not contend that the event was a vision at all.

The book contends that the man ACTUALLY DIED, and he WENT TO HELL.
This happens every day, perhaps every second. As I understand it approximately 146,357 people die each day (that's about 2 per second), I'm sure you would agree that a percentage of them are going to hell. This is REAL, that part we agree on. What you are having a problem with is that one of them could COME BACK and TELL OTHERS ABOUT IT. This is certainly not common, it is highly unusual, but I'm not ready to say it could never happen. It happened to Jonah, so it is not completely outside the realm of the Biblical record. God allowed Jairus’ Daughter to come back, as He did with Lazarus. Those events were all REAL. I think all of this you would agree with.

So what's left? You are assuming they did not remember anything about it, and you are assuming they never told anyone about what they experienced, but the Bible doesn't say that, that is only an assumption. Who am I to say it can never happen.

So the patient is on the floor and he is dead.
The first chapter tells how Dr. Rawlings then inserted an electrical pacemaker wire into the vein under his collar bone and manipulated it through the venous system until the wire was dangled directly inside the man's heart, which shocked or stimulated the patient back into a living state.

At that point, the guy started screaming about being in hell and telling the doctor to pray for him because he was in great fear of going back into the fire. This was no vision, no drugs or pain killers were involved, the book contends it really happened and this is what the medical doctor is writing about.

Funny thing was, at this point the doctor was a devout atheist!

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 03-12-2009 at 10:10 PM.
  #93  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
Hmmm, that would make sense if it was just a vision, but the book does not contend that the event was a vision at all.

The book contends that the man ACTUALLY DIED, and he WENT TO HELL.
This happens every day, perhaps every second. As I understand it approximately 146,357 people die each day (that's about 2 per second), I'm sure you would agree that a percentage of them are going to hell. This is REAL, that part we agree on. What you are having a problem with is that one of them could COME BACK and TELL OTHERS ABOUT IT. This is certainly not common, it is highly unusual, but I'm not ready to say it could never happen. It happened to Jonah, so it is not completely outside the realm of the Biblical record. God allowed Jairus’ Daughter to come back, as He did with Lazarus. Those events were all REAL. I think all of this you would agree with.

So what's left? You are assuming they did not remember anything about it, and you are assuming they never told anyone about what they experienced, but the Bible doesn't say that, that is only an assumption. Who am I to say it can never happen.
Good points there, and you're right that I am making assumptions about things that aren't crystal clear here.

Something else that crossed my mind...according to that book, did anyone actually face God when they died?

What do you believe about Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"? For years we've been preaching that when a man dies he immediately finds himself standing before God in judgment, then it's either to heaven or hell. If this isn't the case, and a person's soul goes straight to hell when they die in their sins, do you think that this judgment after death is a reference to the great white throne judgment that take place at least 1007+ years in the future?

More food for thought. Are you hungry?
  #94  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
pffft, come on Chette, you never bothered to answer my question about the last verse you posted brother! How about engaging the conversation or stop being ugly. Now go back and reply to my post no. 83.
Pr 15:11 Hell and destruction [are] before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

If hell and destruction (the lake of fire is eternal destruction) is before him then it is in his presence forever and ever
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:37 AM
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2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

I don't discount the fact that God is omnipresent and that the Bible teaches He is in hell and heaven (Psalms 139:8), but being in "the presence of the Lord" is something different, it looks like it refers to being in close proximity to the Godhead or the physical manifestation of the Lord:
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Jonah 1:3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.
Aside from Revelation 14:10, which we've discussed, the scripture I've quoted in this thread doesn't support the lake of fire being "in the presence of the Lord" in eternity. Not that it won't be "before Him", for He sees everything, I just don't think it will be located right there in front of His throne "in His presence".
  #96  
Old 03-13-2009, 04:25 AM
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I never said is was right there in front of the throne. but he is as big as his heaven which is a lot larger than our universe.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:27 AM
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As I read through all of this thread I saw many guesses as to hell and it's location. lots of links to works of men. I saw George had given a good study on the spirit and on the dead. I was waiting to see if any of you would indeed take the next step and first do a study on hell so that you would have some ground on which to build you ideas.

you made some good observations but no one did any study on hell. so here goes. I realize some of you could do a better job than I.

Quote:
Hell

To establish every word the word, the KJV Bible, should e trusted above all others. The questions that are raised are what is hell? Where is hell? What is the Lake of fire? Where is the Lake of fire?

There are 31 O.T. references concerning hell. And before we move into any understanding of hell we need to see what Hebrew words were translated by Holy ghost guidance by the translator into hell.

According to the list below Duet is the first use of the English word hell. The Hebrew word is Sheol, now interestingly enough this Hebrew word is used 63 times in the OT and 29 of its uses is translated grave or graves. Three times it is pit.

De 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
This verse verifies Peter that the earth will melt with a fervent heat.

2Sa 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
This verse has nothing to do with a place of eternal destruction but rather David is speaking of seeing death all around him. See Psalm 18:5

Job 11:8 [It is] as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
This verse has to do with finding out the Height, width, depth, and breath of God. Nothing at all with eternal destruction.

Job 26:6 Hell [is] naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
Here Job describes that all is seen and nothing is hidden from the sight of God including eternal destruction

Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
Now here is a verse that definitely tells us of the out come of those who are wicked they shall be turned in to Hell. Kind of like someone who is turned in for committing a crime.

Ps 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
This verse has to do with the Messiah. It is in reference to the two fold compartment Jesus spoke about in Luke 16 (see more in Luke 16) we know this because we have the whole Bible to connect these together.

Ps 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
This is the song of David as found in 2Sam22:6 recorded here in Psalms. See 2Sam22:6

Ps 55:15 Let death seize upon them, [and] let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness [is] in their dwellings, [and] among them.
Now here is a verse that immediately David writes of their quick demise and death. The Word hell is translated here so we see the out come of the wicked.

Ps 86:13 For great [is] thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
Here we have a reference to the waiting place known as hell. If was Jesus who later delivered the souls of the righteous from this lowest hell. This would also indicate the hell is nteh earth. That is the holding place.

Ps 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
Here again the Psalmist reiterating that though the pains of death, sorrow and trouble he likens to hell have over taken him. But as he calls upon the LORD to have mercy and deliver him in his time of trouble. We learn from verse like this that life can be like hell at times. Hence the Unsaved man who claims that this life is the only hell there is. For this life is hell on earth.

Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. Here the Psalmist claims that no matter where he goes He cannot get out of the presence of the Lord.

Pr 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
Pr 7:27 Her house [is] the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Pr 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead [are] there; [and that] her guests [are] in the depths of hell.
Here Solomon claims that a foolish man who follows the paths of wickedness even though enticed to sin his destination is death and hell. That is seen as eternal destruction awaits the wicked.


Pr 15:11 Hell and destruction [are] before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Here is a verse that shows that Hell and Destruction (the lake of fire) are in the presence of the LORD.

Pr 15:24 The way of life [is] above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.
Here the wise man tells us that if a man follows the ways of life his eternal destiny will be changed. Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life.

Pr 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Here we learn that corporal punishment is beneficial to a child’s learning in this life if it is done correctly and wisely.

Pr 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.
Here the wise man by inspiration reveals a quality about hell and destruction that we can come to understand. They shall never come to fulness in quantity and time. Destruction is eternal and it will never be satisfied for the debt the wicked have to pay can never be paid in full for all of eternity

Isa 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Here we get a glimpse of the fulness of hells destruction and that it takes many. You will take notice that Hell is referred to as a female (sorry ladies) but wickedness, is described as a woman in Zec 5:7, 8 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And he said, This is wickedness. And often we see women who are evil Jezebel, the daughter and wife of Herod. So it is only fitting that Hell the place of wickedness and all that practice it is called a her.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Interesting as we see the reference to Lucifer, his fallen name is Satan, Now we are told in the NT that and this is a reference to the lake of fire Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: So literally hell is moved from below to another place and Satan will be right there along side all the wicked people forever and his destruction shall be forever. And that destruction is ever before God.
See Proverbs 15:11

Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
These are interesting verses and in between these two verse it speaks of the chief cornerstone, a firm foundation, it speaks of Christ and his coming. So it is a prophecy concerning the leaders of Jerusalem who think that in the words of Moses they have everlasting life at the first coming of Christ. But they will find out that they have believed the lie they trusted in their own righteousness to save them when only Christ, the one they rejected can.

Isa 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase [thyself even] unto hell.
Here Israel has gone as far as lowering themselves to deserving hell because of their Idolatry.

Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Eze 31:17 They also went down into hell with him unto [them that be] slain with the sword; and [they that were] his arm, [that] dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
Here Ezekiel speaks of the destruction of Assyria and it’s king and all those who trusted in him. It is clear to see that these men are sent to hell we will speak later on that.

Eze 32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
Eze 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty [that are] fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though [they were] the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
Here Ezekiel speaks that the Egyptians will join others who are already in hell. You will notice in the connecting verses that there is graves, their tombs, and the pit. This would be equal to the torment that Jesus spoke of in Luke 16. You will notice the connection in that these mighty will speak out of the midsts of hell as the rich man spoke out of it. See Luke 16

Am 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
Speaking of his people Israel who have rejected him. Not matter where they go he will find them. Hell here is meant to show the lowest place and climb into heaven as the highest place they could go and try to hide from him. They will still face his judgement. To be completed in the 7 year great Tribulation.

Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice.
Here the whales belly is liken unto hell and God can hear his servant from there. It is this example to Israel that Jesus Gave them for a sin as three days in the belly of the whale so shall it be for the Son of Man. Who descended into hell particularly Paradise where he could preach and all in both compartments can hear.

Hab 2:5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
This verse is liken unto Proverbs 27:20 where the eyes of the wicked are not satisfied.


In the New Testament we have the English word hell found 23 times. The Greek word Gehenna is used 11 times translated as hell, the other 11 times hell is used it is translated from the Greek word Hades. And once it is translated from the word Greek word Tartaroo. Gehenna is the place of everlasting punishment. While Hades is a holding place.

Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.
These three instances of Gehenna or Hell is in reference to everlasting punishment. Jesus said if a man called his brother Raca., interesting to see that the word is a transliteration and not translated. Apparently there was no English equivalent to the Greek word Raca it meant to call a man worthless. For if God gave his son to die for all men no man is worthless. The other two references Jesus was giving a lesson that if it were possible it is better for a man to cut off or pluck out something now to keep one from sin rather than face judgement and go to everlasting punishment. Qualified in 5:22 as hell fire.

Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Here Jesus speaking of future event concerning his disciples he gives us the Admonishment on to whom we need really fear. Not man who can only destroy the flesh but God who can send you to hell -or into everlasting punishment. And it tells us not only is the soul but the resurrected body shall be cast into hell as well.

Mt 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Here is the first use of the word Hades in the N.T. and the context is that the city (which in this case are the inhabitants) this is in reference to the waiting place Hell of torments as Christ called in in Luke 16.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
This is an interesting use of the word Hades as it tells us that this temporary place will not hold the church which is Israel and his Body which is built on his work as Messiah and redeemer. Those who believe shall not see Gehenna for that is the second death. the grave will have no victory and death will have no sting for those who are his church.


Mt 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Again it is similar to Matthew 5 see above.


Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Jesus here call the hypocrites children of Hell. Knowing that their place is eternal punishment and those they make like themselves they condemn them to eternal punishment doubly cursed.

Mt 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Here Jesus tells them that they witness to the fact that they are children of those who killed God servants and that they will not escape eternal punishment.

Mr 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mr 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mr 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
same as Matthew 5 just told a little differently.


Lu 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Same as Matthew 11 see above

Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Same as Matthe 10:28 see above


Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Here Is the only description given by our Lord of the waiting place of the dead. They are waiting judgement. Jesus will lead Paradise or Abraham bosom to heaven when he is resurrected. Where in he led captivity captive. Here we ee that in this place those in torment see those in paradise. And this place of confinement until judgement no one can cross over. So anyone claiming to see a ghost of a departed person is actually seeing a devil in disguise.


Ac 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
These verse are in References to the OT prophecy’s spoken of Christ. See Psalm 16 above.

Jas 3:6 And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Here James is comparing the gossiping tongue to Hell fire. And that it is easier to control animals than our own tongues. I think we all can agree with that.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Here Peter describes the holding place of fallen angels God has yet to execute his judgement. To understand chains of darkness to be a pit or a deep place designed for holding angels.

Re 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Here Jesus declares himself alive and he hold the Key to hell and death. He is the one who can open up Hades and release those who are held there in.

Re 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Here it is that this rider send many to the waiting place for judgement. Obviously, it could be to both torments and paradise that he send them to. If some are sent paradise they will go under the altar as seen in the next verse

Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The last two reference are to the holding place of souls of physically dead men. And after it is emptied it will be cast into the lake of fire for eternal destruction.

Lake of Fire

Lake of fire is found only four times in the New Testament only

Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
John tells us that the beast and the false prophet are cast directly into the lake of fire which is eternal punishment. Not judgement for these were most likely devils who possessed bodies of men who were already judged in the past.

Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
We see Satan is cast into the lake of fire at the end of 1000 year kingdom after he cause the men of theat time to rebel against Christ at Jerusalem The devil, the beat and the false Prophet will be tormented for all eternity..

Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
See above comments on hell. but any resurrected soul who was not found in the book of life was sent to the lake of fire. this book is not the L:amb's book of life.

Now our study revealed that hell is a place where dead souls go to await judgement and in this place they are given a taste of what awaits them in the future. This place it seems is located in the earth as even Jesus was said to descend into the earth,
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
So clearly the holding place hell translated from the word Hades. The translator rightly translated it hell for it is a taste of the eternal punishment the wicked are to expect for all eternity. Even the righteous were able to see this from Paradise.

Hell can be a condition of one mental ideas of this life. As found in Psalm 116

We see Hell is a place of eternal torment by fire and by a ravenous worm. Taught by our Lord Jesus Christ concerning hell as translated from the Greek word Gehenna

While the location of the Lake of fire is not mentioned many can give guesses. But I will say this. Its location is not mentioned in the Bible because this place was not created as it says in Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: this place was not prepared during or after the 6 day creation but was indeed created at some time in eternity past. As the Bible does not mention it place because it was prepared out side our 24/7TQ. The Gen 1:3-5 creation of time is a instrument by which we can rightly divide the scriptures concerning the lake of fire and many other events not detailed in Scriptures.

I would assume that the lake of fire might be found somewhere inside the firmament and many things science had discovered sold be such a place like brown dwarf stars or if true a black hole.

Anyway, having a good idea of hell is always beneficial for us as we can learn it purpose and we can see God reveals his wrath against sin for all to see.
  #98  
Old 03-13-2009, 08:20 AM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish
Hmmm, that would make sense if it was just a vision, but the book does not contend that the event was a vision at all.

The book contends that the man ACTUALLY DIED, and he WENT TO HELL.
This happens every day, perhaps every second. As I understand it approximately 146,357 people die each day (that's about 2 per second), I'm sure you would agree that a percentage of them are going to hell. This is REAL, that part we agree on. What you are having a problem with is that one of them could COME BACK and TELL OTHERS ABOUT IT. This is certainly not common, it is highly unusual, but I'm not ready to say it could never happen. It happened to Jonah, so it is not completely outside the realm of the Biblical record. God allowed Jairus’ Daughter to come back, as He did with Lazarus. Those events were all REAL. I think all of this you would agree with.

So what's left? You are assuming they did not remember anything about it, and you are assuming they never told anyone about what they experienced, but the Bible doesn't say that, that is only an assumption. Who am I to say it can never happen.
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Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian View Post
Good points there, and you're right that I am making assumptions about things that aren't crystal clear here.

Something else that crossed my mind...according to that book, did anyone actually face God when they died?

What do you believe about Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"? For years we've been preaching that when a man dies he immediately finds himself standing before God in judgment, then it's either to heaven or hell. If this isn't the case, and a person's soul goes straight to hell when they die in their sins, do you think that this judgment after death is a reference to the great white throne judgment that take place at least 1007+ years in the future?
Excellent question.
Yep, I figure it has to be the great white throne judgment in the future.
I don't think the confidence for believers in 2 Corinthians 5:8 applies to all men.
When the unrepentant die they are placed "on second death row" into a temporary holding place (prison) to suffer until they are judged down the road. Sadly, they have no advocate with the Father, only the accuser. The very name of Satan means "the accuser."
  #99  
Old 03-13-2009, 10:29 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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only the accuser. The very name of Satan means "the accuser."
where will Satan be accusing those who are in the temporary holding pin awaiting judgement?
  #100  
Old 03-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Bro. Parrish
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where will Satan be accusing those who are in the temporary holding pin awaiting judgement?
Rev. 12:10 will give a hint, but not necessarily the complete answer.
Like I said before, the "location" of these things is a bit cloudy.
 

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