Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 07-14-2008, 08:05 AM
Debau's Avatar
Debau Debau is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 177
Default

Quote:
Quote from bibleprotector:
"The issue is concerning whether or not the English itself is sufficient alone to be the very Word of truth to every man in the world."
No, the English is not sufficient alone.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

As I have read through your threads, I believe your pedantic attention to details has blinded you so as you can't see the forest for the trees. Where is the Gospel in all your writing??? Hid somewhere only in English. Your delusion of an English only pure text is an affront to every missionary who works tirelessly to give the people an accurate faithful translation in their native tongues.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #72  
Old 07-14-2008, 09:01 AM
bibleprotector's Avatar
bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

The Gospel is not "hidden" in English, but manifestly there. By which language has the Reformation prevailed? And which Bible has been sailed and beamed throughout the world? Which nations have been the greatest missionaries?

Just as a seed grows up to harvest, and just as a great building is put up stone upon stone, so we see that things are tending toward a monumental universal English Gospel witness.

God has caused the true Bible to be manifest fully in English, that it be taken by those English-speaking Christians who are advanced in doctrine and knowledge, to use the English language, from the basis of their English-speaking nations, to communicate by an English-saturated medium to an English-speaking world... how could one deny that the Scripture by this way being fulfilled to overflowing, be the Gospel preached into all the world, to every man, among all nations, etc., but that it would obviously be because the English is sufficient alone. Why? Because the Holy Ghost has chosen it and raised it up and is furthering the cause of it, as we may see by signs this very day.

Isaiah 28:11 says, "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." Those who are predestined to preach to the Jews are those who speak another language: not Hebrew, because it must be one other, and not Greek, because the conversion of the Jews was not accomplished in the New Testament times. Therefore, (and it is clear) that it falls to those who would preach to the Jews before the coming of Christ. And who? Plainly, the highest and true form of Christianity is very strongly connected and evident with those who use the King James Bible. Yes, Bible prophecy shows that it is we who preach to the Jews.

What is the Gospel? I have been writing about it all along. God has manifested himself to us, seemingly foolish people from the end of the earth, that we, as lovers and doers of the law of God, attain wisdom and possess the blessing, bring others into the truth. It is Christ in us that it may be (by our witness) Christ in them (Jews and multitudes of other sinners).

Let the missionaries rejoice and be glad. The same God who has provided them with an accurate faithful translation of the Holy Scripture (the KJB) is also turning the people to the English tongue! "that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent." (Zeph. 3:9b).
  #73  
Old 07-14-2008, 10:38 AM
Connie
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I agree, Debau. God has particularly blessed the English-speaking nations -- although we are losing those blessings in recent years, having turned away from our Christian heritage -- and yes, we are blessed in the KJB, and yes, the KJB is the best guide to translations into other languages we possess, as David Cloud affirms among others, but this idea that the English itself is some kind of divine perfection is a strange conceit, and it makes defending the KJB-only position a lot more difficult than necessary too.
  #74  
Old 07-14-2008, 11:02 AM
Brother Tim's Avatar
Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 864
Default

Debau and Connie,

Can either of you name a single translation in any present (or past for that matter) language other than the English KJB that has been identified as being pure and absolutely accurate down to the very punctuation? I think not.

The reality is that none exists. Your argument is theoretical. Should we want the Gospel be available in every language in perfect accuracy? Certainly. Is it God's plan for that to happen? Evidently not. What we are to do is help those missionaries who are in the field and serving faithfully to have the tools necessary to bring those to whom they are sent as close as is possible to the full knowledge of God's message to them. Next, we should seek to promote the knowledge of English so that those who are converted will have the greatest opportunities to grow as they learn the pure truth.

The reality is that we cannot translate the complete Word of God into every single language that exists today. What we can do is train those who can go into those places and enable the development of English awareness. This will do more to open the doors of the Gospel than any other method.

I do not discredit the efforts of those who are doing their best to get the Gospel out by whatever means possible. I am simply saying that in the big picture, the most effective long-term efforts in the growth of the believing church worldwide are likely to be involving English-language education.
  #75  
Old 07-14-2008, 11:16 AM
bibleprotector's Avatar
bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

Brother Tim, you have the gift of laying things out very clearly and being very practical.

It is a sad thing that many have not yet heard the Gospel, and that various barriers and darkness persists. We want the Gospel to be preached. What you have laid out makes a lot of sense.
  #76  
Old 07-14-2008, 10:53 PM
bibleprotector's Avatar
bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

Connie wrote:
Quote:
God has particularly blessed the English-speaking nations -- although we are losing those blessings in recent years, having turned away from our Christian heritage
"We" have not been turning away from "our" Christian heritage. "We" are the remnant that remembers and keeps it. We are the salt of the nation.

Most sincere Christians are viewing history from a pessimistic futurist view. They see everything getting worse. They know that the Antichrist etc. is coming soon. But we should also see that through history God has preserved and built up His Church. And that through history God has done so many things to thwart evil purposes.

Things might go down for some nations because of the failures of the Church in those nations, and we know that Bible prophecy indicates that some nations are to have bad things happen to them, e.g. Russia, nevertheless, we should not think that God has abandoned us or that proper revival is never coming for those who tarry for it.

Last edited by bibleprotector; 07-14-2008 at 11:03 PM.
  #77  
Old 07-15-2008, 08:42 PM
Debau's Avatar
Debau Debau is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 177
Default

Quote:
The reality is that we cannot translate the complete Word of God into every single language that exists today. What we can do is train those who can go into those places and enable the development of English awareness. This will do more to open the doors of the Gospel than any other method.

I do not discredit the efforts of those who are doing their best to get the Gospel out by whatever means possible. I am simply saying that in the big picture, the most effective long-term efforts in the growth of the believing church worldwide are likely to be involving English-language education
.

We can't do it if we aren't in earnest prayer asking to do it. You have already given up. God can do it! Whose "big picture" are you viewing from? Are you supporting foreign language translators?

Here are some videos addressing foreign languages realistically. English is not the answer here.


http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf...ID=71008164520

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf...D=710081222174
.

Last edited by Debau; 07-15-2008 at 08:51 PM.
  #78  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:16 PM
bibleprotector's Avatar
bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

By coincidence, I happened to watch parts of those two sermons on a live webcast last week, and so I have not looked at those links. As I heard them speak, it only confirmed to me that English was the way to go. Apparently hundreds of small Indian languages do not have the Scripture. Obviously English is the answer. (This speaker presented such a negative view of the reaching of the natives, that I turned it off.)

As for nations where Islam is currently in control, we should not think that such control is everlasting. Moreover, that the learning of the people involved with the Arabic translation is not on the same level as the King James Bible translators. Moreover, the principles of the Arabic translation raise some objections, e.g. allowing peer review in a time where modernism was arising/is now ascendant.

Most importantly, the learned speaker upon the Arabic translation stressed what is an incorrect premise, namely, that the Word of God exists in the "Masoretic Text" and "Textus Receptus". While this is generally true, these text forms are not final. It is obvious that there are many varying presentations or possibilities of textual and translational differences depending on choices within the good stream, because there is no final authoritative perfect extant presentation of the Scripture in Hebrew or in Greek.

Quote:
Are you supporting foreign language translators?
As far as wasting prayer, money and resources for future developments and "breakthroughs" in that direction, no. Personally, I want to see the KJB getting into non-English nations more and more.
  #79  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:30 PM
Brother Tim's Avatar
Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 864
Default

Debau, I am not going to question God's ability to do anything. I just know that it is clear that it is not His intention. The Bible has for the vast majority of its existence been available to the church in a very few languages at any given point in time. Its presence in the major languages even today is with little witness outside of the English where the reverse is true, though only the KJB is a pure text. God has determined to provide the world a single absolutely pure and final standard with the KJB. Those who use the KJB to translate faithfully the Bible into other languages are to be commended for their efforts to extend the reach of the Gospel, but none will reach the perfection that the KJB holds.

Common sense tells us that the vast majority of languages today do not even have the vocabulary necessary to support the message of the text. It is not a matter of the lack of prayer, it is obedience to the direction of the Spirit.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:07 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com