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  #21  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:40 PM
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Chette, let's put your statements together: (underlining mine)

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each Title in its time was inspired
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there is no reason for us not to believe it is Paul as the KJV name says it is Paul
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but some of us see certain scriptures in Hebrews that point to Paul.
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be careful as there is at least 8 times the Author(possibly Paul) that has what looks like a kingdom Gospel twist to it.
If the title is inspired (which it is not), then why are you tentative in your belief that Paul wrote it?
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:53 PM
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well aint it a good thing we can't loose salvation over it?

you will need to keep the context of my possible Paul statement. I said possibly because it is a different Gospel than that of Grace being shared in Hebrews. Having said that I do not want to argue about it as it is my belief. you will have to ask why God would not allow it in the body of the letter? that is your own study.

NOt all people agree that it is Paul who wrote it or that the Title is inspired. Even if the Title says so.
  #23  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:20 PM
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you will have to ask why God would not allow it in the body of the letter?
That can be easily answered. He did not consider it necessary for us to know. It did not affect the reason for the book's existence.
  #24  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:33 PM
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actually there is a reason but you will need to seek that on your own.
  #25  
Old 07-16-2009, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
I was trying to find evidence of when Hebrews was written and I came across a site that looked great for the first couple of paragraphs, using the phrase "rightly dividing" and the author was of the opinion that Paul was the author of Hebrews. Then he started talking about how 95% of original manuscripts put the general epistles except for Hebrews, after Acts, then place Hebrews after II Thessalonians and before I Timothy. He doesn't go into manuscript evidence but I assume it is largely not from the received text. He states his reasons why he believes Hebrews was written during his first Roman imprisonment and his reasons make some sense. He argues that Hebrews was actually written to gentiles. He gives some fairly decent arguments for that, you would have to read the article. I'm not sure how he gets past the title of the book, though! I don't think he's right. Another possibility is that Hebrews is written to the Jews in churches in areas where Paul had authority over gentile churches and perhaps piggybacked to that is the future application to the tribulation church, if there is such a thing. The author's conclusion is that the book of Hebrews should be included in the "Mystery of God" revealed to Paul. Even if the author is correct on when and who Hebrews is written by, I don't believe that the order of the books of the Bible have to be presented in chronological order. Hebrews seems not to fit with Paul's Mystery. I've never understood the book of Hebrews as I should.

If you check this guys website he's all about restoring the Original Bible
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d040901.htm#_ftn4
Jen, using Isaiah 28:9-13 as our method, we see the following:

Paul wrote Hebrews:

Hebrews 13:19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner.
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words.
23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Paul was the greatest of all the apostles, as he was given the revelation of the mystery of the Body of Christ kept hidden from the foundation of the world. Not only was he given the revelation of this, he was also the custodian and revealer of the three Biblical dispensations, (not Scofield's "7"); He closed the door on "time past" and was given the apostleship of "but now" but what many dispensationalists miss in studying 4 dispensations the Bible does not define(4 of Scofiled's) is that Paul was the "master builder" who ushered in Tribulation doctrine to the Jews by writing the first book of Tribulation doctrine for "ages to come".

No other apostle is named as being held captive in Rome("...Italy...") nor is any other apostle so closely associated with Timothy as Timothy was saved under the ministering of the Gospel to him by Paul(...mine own son after the faith...")

Hebrews was written to Hebrews at the start of the Tribulation, and only an Armstrongite, Mormon, Baptist, Protestant, Charismatic, Catholic, who either 1. Teaches salvation by works, 2. Teaches salvation for the Body can be lost, 3. Is an enemy of dispensational teaching, would dare say Hebrews was written to "Gentiles":

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
De 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
De 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

We are adopted sons of Abraham, adopted sons of God, but we are the heirs of no literal geographical promises or blessings, as Gentiles we have no "fathers". Hebrews has a distinct Jewish tone from start to finish, and is doctrinally inclined towards the Jewish Messianic/Apostolic Church of the 12 apostles in the Acts 1-7 period and the future Tribulation/Millenium.

Hebrews is a Tribulation book as Paul points out:

Heb. 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Six thousand years of history, then one thousand of glorious Millennial reign. These Hebrews are on the verge of entering it, first seven years of torment must be endured. Those who "confess their sins", endure to the end, and don't take the Mark OF The Beast will have their sins blotted out at the beginning of this great time of refreshing that will come from the presence of the Lord(Acts 3). No other explanation is tenable and if we rightly divide the word, study precept upon precept, it all falls into place, otherwise we are allegorizing as Rome does.

Grace and peace sister

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 07-16-2009 at 12:13 AM. Reason: spelling
  #26  
Old 07-16-2009, 12:34 AM
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Hey, Tony. Glad to see you back. This post was sort of a bad habit I have of trying to figure out what false doctrines different teachers have and I thought I could get some good insights, which I did! You really are a blessing and a wealth of information.

Grace and peace to you brother,

Jen
  #27  
Old 07-16-2009, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Hey, Tony. Glad to see you back. This post was sort of a bad habit I have of trying to figure out what false doctrines different teachers have and I thought I could get some good insights, which I did! You really are a blessing and a wealth of information.

Grace and peace to you brother,

Jen
Sister, thank you. God has made us all wealthy hasn't He? My computer problems will soon be solved by two words: Panasonic Toughbook

Grace and peace, looking forward to meeting you and brother John.

Tony
  #28  
Old 07-16-2009, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Sister, thank you. God has made us all wealthy hasn't He? My computer problems will soon be solved by two words: Panasonic Toughbook

Grace and peace, looking forward to meeting you and brother John.

Tony
Yes, He has, brother! We live in a 1200 sq ft house (not paid off) and drive economy cars (almost paid off). Our riches are only in Christ Jesus. We would just like to avoid living in a tent if things go sour. It will be our joy to meet you. Glad your computer thing is going to be resolved, looking forward to seeing you online more.
  #29  
Old 07-16-2009, 02:42 PM
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Hebrews was written to Hebrews at the start of the Tribulation, and only an Armstrongite, Mormon, Baptist, Protestant, Charismatic, Catholic, who either 1. Teaches salvation by works, 2. Teaches salvation for the Body can be lost, 3. Is an enemy of dispensational teaching, would dare say Hebrews was written to "Gentiles":
Well, Tony, which am I? I am a Baptist, but:

I am not #1, for I believe and teach without apology that salvation is by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

I am not #2, for I believe and teach without apology that we are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation. (I Peter 1:3-5)

I am not #3, for I have not rejected all of the components of dispensational doctrine, and I do not war (as an enemy) against those who uphold such doctrines.

Yet, I receive the words of Hebrews for myself, as a child of God, though not an Israelite by physical birth, and I do not consider it a book reserved for some future event in time.
  #30  
Old 07-16-2009, 05:06 PM
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Get David Walkers book Dispensationalism, it will reconcile both your views, in the fact as I have said the Book of Hebrews is Transitional from church age to tribulation. lots of church age applications as Tim has pointed out, and doctrines for Israel in the Tribulation as Tony has pointed out
 

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