Originally Posted by Winman

Hi Nehemiah and welcome to the forum. It is very late and I need to get off the computer, so I can't attempt to answer your questions now, but I am sure you will get plenty of responses.

I just wanted to say Hi and welcome you to the forums!

Thank you very kindly Winman. I understand.

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Greetings, those are good questions...
the one about Cain's wife has been asked of me quite often, he married one of his many, many sisters, and there is actually a pretty good overview on it here...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...was-cains-wife

Thanks, but No Thanks; Been there, Ken Ham leaves too many very legitimate questions unanswered.

and another one here:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2181

Ditto.

Like Winman I can't answer all of these right now, but regarding no. 5 and no. 6, I will refer you to my extensive thread at the link below which contains the answers you seek and a lot more about the sons of God and the daughters of men... the entire thread is pretty good reading, but if you're in a hurry you will find that posts no. 5 and 6 on that thread lay down some pretty good timber on the subject.

And I'll find this "extensive thread" where?

by the way, what is the meaning of the title to your thread?

Just what it states?

Giants in the Bible - Nephilim
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=896

Watch out for "Giants" that are only "Giants" according to our fearful perception of them being "Giants".

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Bro. Tony B,
Have you read Bro. Ruckman's Bible Believer's Commentary on Genesis, he devotes about 10 pages to this exact issue, pp 174--184. Just for another view on it...

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Nehemiah, welcome also from me to the forum. You are a man much as myself, I was raised in the Church Of Christ and am a bit of a hardcase regarding sticking to the Scriptures due to the fact COC are very good at twisting them.

Not quite; I was not "raised in the Church Of Christ", nor am I "a bit of a hardcase". And I certainly don't believe that "COC" has a monopoly on Scripture, as to being the only ones that, "are very good at twisting them".

Brother, we must read the Scriptures as being literal where common sense allows us to:

I totally agree with, "we must read the Scriptures as being literal", but I cannot agree with you on, "where common sense allows us to". The phrase, "common sense" is 1) NOT Scriptural; 2) Ungodly; and 3) not nearly so "common" in this day and age.

Ps 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

This does not mean that our Lord is a chicken.

True; but what are "feathers" used for? That's the message.

Zec 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

If I were so inclined I could start a website and use this to preach and teach the First Church Of Santa Claus, and the adherents would run into the tens of thousands and I would be a rich man.

Maybe so, but, according to the passage, and if "the adherents" were paying close attention, they would, "flee from the land of the north", rather than running to you, let alone sending you letters, right?

I'll throw my hat in the ring on answering your questions:

Question One: The "gap" theory is a gap "fact" in that the "gap" is between people's ears. This is an attempt to compromise with "science" because the people who teach and adhere to the Gap Theory feel it's too outrageous to go cross grain with "science" and appear to be dumb hillbillies as people look at me when I tell them, The Gap Is Between Your Ears.
There is no "gap" between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Verse one is an overview, an introductory precept, the rest of the chapter describes what occurs in verse one. Those who stand and resist unto blood the defense of the English in the Bible then commit the same sin they lay on others who they accuse of corrupting the meaning of the Scriptures: They "go to the Hebrew" to "prove" that the Hebrew word for "replenish" means "...should be translated refill". I see no sense in being double minded and unstable in trying to prove an unprovable precept.

In my initial post, I clearly stated, "(Please note: I DO NOT believe the so-called 'Evolutionary gap theory'!)".

Now then, according to you, "Verse one is an overview, an introductory precept, the rest of the chapter describes what occurs in verse one". If that is so, please then explain, How, THE MOST PERFECT "GOD (WHO IS 'LIGHT, and in HIM is NO Darkness at all.') Created the Heaven and the Earth", and all of a sudden, it became, "the earth. . .without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep"???

GOD is not the author of confusion, yet "the earth" that HE Created became, in just the second verse of Genesis One, 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness; a) formlessness (of primeval earth); 1) nothingness, empty space; b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig); c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places); d) place of chaos; which is what the phrase, "without form" means, right?

Now, dare I bring into the discussion, the word, "void (emptiness, void, waste)"? Now surely you'll agree that you cannot 'empty' that which never was contained, right? Nor can that which never was be 'wasted', can it?

Question Two: I Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

You answered your own question here brother.

Currently, Michelle Obama is "the first lady". And I won't even go into the being "old as dirt" thing. What is the context of "the last Adam" being "made a quickening spirit", as opposed to "The first man Adam", being "made a living soul"?

Question Three: If we take the sum total of the Scriptures with regards His general purpose, we see the Universe was created to be inhabited for the glory of God, a minor glitch occurred in Genesis 3 causing the Fix of Matthew 27. We wait for the consumation of all things in Revelation when His plan will then take up where it left off, an inhabited Universe for His glory.

Wow!!! Some "minor glitch". I'm sure GOD considers it a tad bit more than just that, seeing how it COST HIM HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON!

But we can agree on a "glitch" happening; you believe, in Genesis 3; I believe, right at the end of Genesis 1:1.

And HIS MASTERFULLY MASTER PLAN has been in effect since before, "In the beginning...". . .so that when all is thought, tried, and done, no one will never ever again so much as, contemplate trying to usurp GOD'S Sovereignty ever never again.

Question Four: Ge 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
Brother, Cain and Abel both got wives from the same place Seth and the others did until the gene pool stabalized around the time of the giving of the Law: Cain married one of his sisters.

According to Scripture, right? or according to "common sense", and/or man's logic?

Questions Five & Six:

The Scriptures define three types of "sons of God":
The believer today is called a son of God,

True.

the line directily leading to Mary's, the mother of Jesus Christ, father,

No. In that passage, (Luke 3:23-38), only Adam is called/referred to as "the son of GOD".

and angels are called sons of God. Most who define the sons of God of Genesis 6 as being angels also go to the Hebrew to prove it, the union causing anakims and nephelims.

Not so; nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, in ALL of Scripture are "angels" ever referred to as "the sons of GOD". . .NOT even in the Book of Job.

In fact Hebrews 1:5 makes it crystal clear, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

Grace and peace to you

Tony

And you too.

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

And I'll find this "extensive thread" where?
Watch out for "Giants" that are only "Giants" according to our fearful perception of them being "Giants".

LOL, you're getting off to a good start here...
Our perception is moot, the KJV states they WERE GIANTS.
You don't have to put it in "quotes" like it's my word, it's God's Word.

The extensive thread is the thread on Giants.
I gave you the link, back when I thought you were asking honest questions and actually looking for answers.

When I asked you the meaning of your thread title, you answered with a question.
I'll try again; where are you going with all this, what is it you are trying to connect?

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

Not so; nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, in ALL of Scripture are "angels" ever referred to as "the sons of GOD". . .NOT even in the Book of Job.

In fact Hebrews 1:5 makes it crystal clear, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

That's BEGOTTEN SON. Big difference, but I can tell you have already taken a dogmatic position about the questions you ask, so it proabably won't matter.
At any rate, I think Bro. Chette and Tony did a pretty good job answering your questions. Since you apparently have no interest in the notion that Cain married his sister, I'm sure that you will stop asking questions at some point and make your own position clear. Who do YOU think Cain married?

Originally Posted by chette777

Nehemiah
Try this one David Regan is not an evolutionary Gap like me (CKG posted it just the other day no evolution solid evidence for the gap. this way you can get a balance of views of Gap or no Gap http://www.learnthebible.org/search/node/gap seeing BroParish and Winman will only link you to evidences that teach no gap. I want you to seek all views before you make a decision on a gap or not.

Thanks chette777 for the heads up.

Adam was the first man and his wife was the first woman Gen1:27

I believe ALL Scripture; and I agree, within the Context of 1Cor. 15:45, "The first man, Adam...".

I just don't believe that Genesis 1:26-28 addresses the same Adam of Genesis 2.
Reason #1 is, ". . .let them have dominion over the fish of the sea ..."; both the word, ". . .them..." and the phrase, ". . .have dominion over the fish of the sea...", when coupled with, ". . .God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.", just don't seem to explain what the Text (verses 26-28) states and what happens in Genesis 2, and what we have been traditionally led to believe.

Cains wife was one of his sisters women were not recorded in genealogies. we are told that Adam had sons and daughters. Gen 4-5

So it seems that "Cains wife was one of his sisters women were not recorded in genealogies"; and yes, "we are told that Adam had sons and daughters", but only after the birth of Seth.

But, think about this: Cain murders his Father and Mother's youngest son; They have another son ("Seth") almost 130 years later; They then become the Parents of "daughters" (and other "sons"). But according to the Text of what I just described, "Seth" and these "[other] sons and daughters" don't come along until after we're told, "And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch...". And, yes, I know about the so-called "disparities in the chronological order" of How Genesis was supposedly written.

Why would Adam and Eve give to their murderer son, their daughter to wed? Who was Cain afraid of? If there's only Adam, Eve, Cain (at least one daughter of Adam and Eve), why put ". . .a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."? And there are other questions that just don't add up, first and foremost, SCRIPTURAL. . .and then reasonably and logically, etc.!

The Sons of God in Gen 6 are embodied devils who took human wives and produced giant men of renown part of the reason for Noah's flood. the giants show up after the flood as well. the daughters of men are just that female human beings.

Again, here is what I believe to be one of those myths that have become traditionally accepted, without any Scriptural foundation and/or backing whatsoever. . .and quite frankly, I believe it makes GOD look bad; and that's Sin.

The word "angel(s)", are even mentioned and/or alluded to until Genesis 16. Nowhere in all of Scripture do we find angels and humans engaging in any kind of Sexual activity (even in Sodom). Hebrews 1:5 clearly tells us, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"; and just in case we missed something like the word, even "the angel of GOD" and/or "the angel of THE LORD" are never referred to, anywhere in Scripture, as a "son" and/or a "Son" of GOD/THE LORD. We see GOD making men into HIS "sons"; We even see GOD making "HIS WORD" into HIS "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" (John 1:14); but nowhere do we ever see GOD making any angel into anything that remotely resembles a "son".

And it seems that when anyone uses Genesis 6: 1-7, to attempt to justify a position of "the sons of GOD" being [Fallen] angels and such, they always miss a very important word in verse 3, ". . .flesh...". . .not to mention the five times each, that both "man" and "men", is used.

Are we really suppose to believe that GOD, destroyed mankind (Save Noah's party), because "fallen angels" started procreating with human women? And yet, the so-called "embodied devils", were left by GOD, to do (and/or try) the same thing after the flood?

simple answers for simple questions. Welcome to the the forum.

Seems more like "simple" speculations to me. And thank you for your Gracious and Kind "Welcome".

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

LOL, you're getting off to a good start here...
Our perception is moot, the KJV states they WERE GIANTS.
You don't have to put it in "quotes" like it's my word, it's God's Word.

By "moot", are you using the word as adjective, verb, or a noun? And all we're told, in Genesis 6:4 is that, "There were giants in the earth in those days;" No mention is made of them being the off-springs of "angels". And it seems as though, according to the wording, "There were giants in the earth in those days;", were the result of what happened when, ". . .the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.". These "sons of GOD" procreated with "the daughters of men", and produced off-springs that were the sons of "the sons of GOD", yet at the same time, the sons of "the daughters of men".

In other words, by way of example ONLY, given the longevity that people lived, Adam (a "son of GOD") takes a wife from "the daughters of men" who's 4-5 generations removed from him. . .that would equal one messed up off-spring, huh?

The extensive thread is the thread on Giants.
I gave you the link, back when I thought you were asking honest questions and actually looking for answers.

I really appreciate the information, but I'm not focused on "Giants" right now.

When I asked you the meaning of your thread title, you answered with a question.
I'll try again; where are you going with all this, what is it you are trying to connect?

All 6 questions.

That's BEGOTTEN SON. Big difference, but I can tell you have already taken a dogmatic position about the questions you ask, so it proabably won't matter.

Is your opinion, of what you "can tell. . .already" about me, any less "a dogmatic position" than what you "have already taken"?

At any rate, I think Bro. Chette and Tony did a pretty good job answering your questions. Since you apparently have no interest in the notion that Cain married his sister, I'm sure that you will stop asking questions at some point and make your own position clear. Who do YOU think Cain married?

But you just stated that "Our perception is moot."
His WIFE.

[Diligent]

Well, that is an interesting heresy.

Banned.

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

In other words, by way of example ONLY, given the longevity that people lived, Adam (a "son of GOD") takes a wife from "the daughters of men" who's 4-5 generations removed from him. . .that would equal one messed up off-spring, huh?

Adam didn't take a wife from the daughters of men.
You seem mired in confusion...

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

Are we really suppose to believe that GOD, destroyed mankind (Save Noah's party), because "fallen angels" started procreating with human women? And yet, the so-called "embodied devils", were left by GOD, to do (and/or try) the same thing after the flood?

The word Nephilim means "fallen ones." Not Sethites.
It would seem you are having a problem with a spiritual being interfacing with female humans. Have you ever thought how Jesus wound up in Mary's womb? Considering that your very Saviour once lived in ambiotic fluid, only the most jaded of Bible students would completely close off the idea that at least some type of interaction could happen in the realm of evil as well. I'm actually not as dogmatic on all this as you may think, and I try to avoid from completely shutting out information from others, especially when I ask the questions.

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

But you just stated that "Our perception is moot."
His WIFE.

Look, if you want to truly have a "civil discussion" as you stated, why not just stop playing games. My comment about perception was in response to your indication that there were no real GIANTS, only perceptions of giants. The Bible is pretty clear about the fact that there were giants, whether YOU accept it or not. The comment about his WIFE, indicates you may be a stubborn jackanapes and this is unfortunate, as I had hoped you were looking for answers, not a merely a platform for your quips.

[geologist]

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

Not so; nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, in ALL of Scripture are "angels" ever referred to as "the sons of GOD". . .NOT even in the Book of Job.

In fact Hebrews 1:5 makes it crystal clear, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

If not angels, then who are the "sons of God" in this passage?

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

[George]

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

Hello Everyone,
"I'm Nehemiah; I'm somewhat new here; I'm very analytical and word alert; I believe THE ENTIRE WORD of GOD ("All Scripture...") to be just as Literal, as some others believe it to be figurative; my mentality is to keep it simple enough for me to understand it (KISS), as I am definitely NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer; I believe that GOD Says what HE Means, and Meant Everything that HE Has Already Said; and I'd really like your answers to the following questions, along with a very very civilized discussion regarding them:"

1) What happened between Genesis 1:1 ("In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."), and Genesis 1:2a ("And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.")? (Please note: I DO NOT believe the so-called "Evolutionary gap theory"!)

2) Was Adam really only, "the first man... (1Cor. 15:45)"?

3) What was GOD'S Real Purpose for Adam in Genesis 2?

4) Who was Cain's Wife?

5) Who were "the sons of GOD (Gen. 6:2,4;Job 1:6;2:1;38:7)"?

6) Who were "the daughters of men (Gen. 6:2,4)"?

Aloha Nehemiah,

I ALSO BELIEVE "THE ENTIRE WORD of GOD". And so I will attempt to answer your questions, although I am curious as to WHY you are asking them:

"1) What happened between Genesis 1:1 ("In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."), and Genesis 1:2a ("And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.")? (Please note: I DO NOT believe the so-called "Evolutionary gap theory"!)"

I too - "DO NOT believe the so-called "Evolutionary gap theory", BUT, on the other hand, since God has chosen to give us very few details about the Creation, I do not spend much time "speculating" as to what could or could not have occurred between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. What does it matter WHAT I "think" - might (or might not) have happened?

I believe that Almighty God (THE GOD of "the Scripture of truth") created the whole of Creation: The Universe (and all that is within it); the Earth (and all that is within it); and every single living thing that lives above the "firmament" and under "the firmament" (in the universe, in the air, in the sea, on the surface, and below the surface). All of life and creation came from God, and there is nothing made that was made without Him. [John 1:1-4]

I also believe (according to the Bible) that the Earth has undergone some CHANGES since the ORIGINAL CREATION. And God has had different "COVENANTS" with men down through the ages:

#1. Earth before the fall of man: No Bible, Possibly no rain, no thorns, no thistles, no pain, no sickness, no death - Paradise on earth.

#2. Earth after the fall: No Bible, Possibly no rain, extreme longevity, the earth cursed (thorns & thistles, etc.), pain, sickness and death ushered in - Paradise lost.

#3. Earth soon after the flood: No Bible, rain, diversity of tongues, diminishing longevity.

#4. Abraham to Moses: No Bible, God chooses a people for Himself – The "Hebrews" (later known as Israelites, i.e. Jews).

#5. Moses to the Lord Jesus Christ: Old Testament, God makes a nation out of His chosen people - "Israel".

#6. Death, Burial, and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ to the present: New Testament, God temporarily sets aside the nation of Israel – [His chosen people], and takes out a people from among the Gentiles for His Son – (the church - the body of Christ).

#7. The future of the world and mankind: Israel will be reinstated, Christ will rule and reign over ALL the Earth and Universe, and we will rule with Him (for we shall be like Him) - Paradise will be restored.

"2) Was Adam really only, "the first man... (1Cor. 15:45)"?

You answered your own question: YES! According to the Holy Scriptures - Adam was the very "FIRST MAN" (and ONLY MAN "created" by God)
[1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.]

"3) What was GOD'S Real Purpose for Adam in Genesis 2?"

Adam was to take care of the Garden. [Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.]

"4) Who was Cain's Wife?"

The Bible does not address the issue, and so it remains for us to either believe that Cain married one of his "sister's" (one of Adam & Eve's daughters), or God made more women (out of who's rib?) for Adam's sons. (the Bible doesn't even "hint" at this "solution", which would be pure "speculation" on our part)

"5) Who were "the sons of GOD (Gen. 6:2,4;Job 1:6;2:1;38:7)"?"

There are only 11 places in the Scriptures where the term "the sons of God" is used:

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The above verses "qualify WHO are "the sons of God".

In the beginning - "the sons of God" were "present" at the creation [Job 38:1-7]- so they cannot be just Adams "sons"; or Seth's "sons", or Enos' "sons" (men were NOT "present" when God "laid the foundations of the Earth"). The "sons of God" are God's "SONS"!

"6) Who were "the daughters of men (Gen. 6:2,4)"?"

Again, you answered your own question. To put it as simply as I can - "the daughters of men" are the female offspring of Adam, Cain, Enoch, Lamech, Seth, Enos, Cainan, etc., etc. The "daughters of men" are - "THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN"!

As to your statement: "I believe THE ENTIRE WORD of GOD ("All Scripture...") to be just as Literal, as some others believe it to be figurative; my mentality is to keep it simple enough for me to understand it (KISS)"

Since the words "literal" and "figurative" are NOT in the Holy Bible I subscribe to the Scriptural "command" concerning the word of God:

[2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.]

I seek to "rightly divide the word of truth". If there is an "allegory", or a "parable", I take them as such. If there is a "type", or a "picture", or an "illustration", I take them as such also. In other words, I try my hardest to "rightly divide the word of truth".

In my lesson on "How to Study the Bible", I said:

The Bible (The Scriptures) = A Timeless Book!

In the past: The Old Testament filled the needs of the Jews and the nation of Israel. After Israel’s rejection of Christ the Messiah, It also served the needs of Christians in the early churches and all of the churches throughout history.

Today: The complete Bible serves our needs today and will continue to do so until the Translation of the church of God.

Future: It will be sufficient for the tribulation saints and will be used in the millennium and throughout all eternity.

All Scripture has 3 applications:

#1. Historical

#2. Spiritual

#3. Doctrinal

All Scripture must be taken literally – unless it is impossible to do so.
John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Scriptures are not to be privately “interpreted”.
2Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

All Doctrines derived from the Scriptures must be drawn from and built upon Scripture only.
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weanedfrom the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

I have politely and courteously answered your questions; perhaps you will have the courtesy answer mine:

WHY do you ask these questions?

WHAT purpose do these questions serve, if all things are to be done for edification? {Romans 14:19; 1Corinthians 10:23; 14:5,12,26; 2Corinthians 12:19; Ephesians 4:12,16,29; 1Thessalonians 5:11; 1Timothy 1:4}

I too welcome you to our Forum. I do hope that you will be a source of edification for all of the brethren here.