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  #31  
Old 06-05-2009, 11:50 AM
KingSolomon1611 KingSolomon1611 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
It looks like those goose-stepping Catholic socio-psychopaths at Christian Identity are at it again. Eric Robert Rudolph Lives!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tiller_shooting

This is not how it is done.

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )

Grace and peace friends

Tony
Hey Bro how do you connect the Christian Identity to Catholicism? Do know of a book, link or video?
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  #32  
Old 06-05-2009, 01:24 PM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
Okay, let's look at those two again, and let me ask...
why is one justifiable homicide and the other an act of terror?

Why would any of us fire and I assume kill the mass murderer who is killing child A, but not the one who is killing child B?

Tony please understand;
I am asking this of anyone on the forum, not directing it only at you.

Well here's the thing; to me, abortion is also premeditated murder. The doctor sets an appointment, the murder is planned and scheduled, then carried out. In fact, it is premeditated murder for hire, there is money involved. EITHER WAY, A CHILD IS MURDERED. So what's the difference, and why is Tiller's death not justifiable homicide, could his killer be not viewed as justified in saving children?
Brother Parrish, I understand everything you are saying and so there is no problem personally between us here.

The difference is the law does not recognize an unborn child as a human being, therefore to them it is not murder. It's an abomination to us, yes, but to them it's not a problem. To you and to me, we see it's premeditated murder, the law does not. The law sees a serial killer with a knife drawn back on a child as premeditated murder, thus we are justified in killing or wounding in self-defense of the child and probably ourselves, as we will be the next victim. If the abortion laws are changed then yes, it becomes murder but we can still do nothing without duly deputized authority of the state to arrest the abortion doctor, not kill him or her. If abortion is illegal then, we have the authority to make a "citizen's arrest", not shoot someone down in cold blood. We don't have the authority to force a drunk driver off the road and cause an accident maybe and place him under arrest if we don't cause an accident. We don;t have the authority to prevent murder(abortion) by commiting murder if the state does not recognize the abortion as murder, we do have the right to change the law, just as Paul had the right to claim Roman citizenship in Acts 16, and to appeal his case before Caesar rather than the Jewish religious authorities. If we have the right to shoot and kill abortion doctors, then i guess we have the right to kill prostitutes who have AIDS. Hey Baby, show you a good time? You HIV positive? Yes. Boom. How about drunk drivers? We all know the worst repeat offenders on the planet are child molesters and drunk drivers. Are we justified in waiting outside bars for drunks to get in their cars, Hey Otis? Yeah? You drunk? Yeah. Boom.

Not one single verse in the Scriptures say we are vigilantes. As a police officer King Solomon here has the authority to shoot a serial killer who has a knife drawn back on a child, just as I do if no police officer is present, but under the law as it stands now he does not have the authority to go into an abortion clinic and shoot a doctor performing an abortion, then neither do I.

Brother Parrish, you and i disagree on a lot of things, I'm not being contentious with you for the sake of being contentious, but consider what I am saying. We have civil law and some of it is contemptuous yes, but we have to obey God and not commit murder, we are not Christians if we do commit murder, because we know no murderer has the Spirit of God.

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Grace and peace to you brother

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 06-05-2009 at 01:33 PM. Reason: spelling typo
  #33  
Old 06-05-2009, 05:24 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Brother Parrish, I understand everything you are saying and so there is no problem personally between us here.

The difference is the law does not recognize an unborn child as a human being, therefore to them it is not murder.
Hmmm, well I'm not sure how man views an unborn child anymore brother, it seems to depend on whether the child is wanted or not.

For example...

Huron man faces murder, fetal homicide charges
HURON, S.D. (AP) "Beadle County authorities have accused a 42-year-old Huron man of killing his pregnant girlfriend. Court papers show Shannon Flowers faces two counts of first-degree murder and an alternate count of felony fetal homicide in the Thursday death of 20-year-old Brittney Chua and her unborn daughter."
http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=339364

Man faces murder charges for killing fetus
"For the first time in New Mexico, and perhaps the nation, a person is being prosecuted for causing the death of an unborn child. The defendant killed a pregnant 29-year-old woman and has been charged with killing her unborn child, the Albuquerque Journal reports..."
http://newmexicoindependent.com/1353...-killing-fetus

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
If the abortion laws are changed then yes, it becomes murder but we can still do nothing without duly deputized authority of the state to arrest the abortion doctor...
If the abortion laws are changed then yes, it becomes murder? Brother, I appreciate what you are saying, really I do. But the simple fact we agree on is, despite decades of euphemisms and semantics, abortion is already murder no matter what the law of man says. America has hidden herself from this fact, and swallowed the devil's medicine on abortion.

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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
1 Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
I think you have a good point there, but just like the police officers or soldiers or citizens who are killing to protect the lives of the innocent I think it's at least possible that Tiller's killer was saved and carrying out what he thought was correct in light of Genesis 9:6...
"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
If we have the right to shoot and kill abortion doctors, then i guess we have the right to kill prostitutes who have AIDS.
Hmmm, nice try, but the prostitute's primary goal is not murdering her customers, she may not even be aware that she has AIDS, she may insist the "john" use condoms, etc... so lots of variables there and not really apples to apples brother. The mass murderer who has already killed 50,000 has one purpose; premeditated murder for hire. A man like Tiller is a professional baby butcher, and he stacks them up in the freezer until they are burned in the furnace.

Look, I think everyone has made some good points, I appreciate all this talk of "who has rights" and "who has authority." But let's be clear, I KNOW WHAT MAN'S LAW STATES. I'm not discussing man's law, I'm wondering if the blood of 40 million murdered children in America alone since Roe vs. Wade has given us Bible people a reason to remember what is RIGHT and WRONG according to the Bible. That's all.

I have no idea what motivated Tiller's killer, it may come as a surprise to all of us. It's an interesting discussion. Meanwhile, today we have a president who voted to withhold life sustaining care to children who are BORN ALIVE in abortion clinics. As for me, I am meditating on this...

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matt. 25:40
  #34  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:00 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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BroP,

I know your craftiness so I am answering with scripture as to what type of character you are to have as a christian and under what rule are you.

Hypothetical question are not worth answering because they are crafted by the mind of man to cause strife.

of course a killer can be christian, they are still sinners and can in fact do very heinous crimes. It doesn't make it right though A true Christian is forgiven al sin. Howevwer we are not to use our grace as a opportunity to sin. Rom 6:1, 15 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Last edited by chette777; 06-05-2009 at 08:07 PM.
  #35  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:24 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
BroP,

I know your craftiness so I am answering with scripture as to what type of character you are to have as a christian and under what rule are you.
Hypothetical question are not worth answering because they are crafted by the mind of man to cause strife.
Brother, any "strife" here pales with the violence done to the unborn every day of the week, thanks to the "craftiness" of liberal politicians and pro-death attorneys. 3,700 children were killed by abortion in the U.S. and that's just TODAY. Over 1 million more will be killed here this year alone and that's just one country. I am watching a TV show right now, there is a whale sanctuary in the arctic, and the Japanese are killing whales there. Right now I see environmentalists intervening, ramming their boats, getting gun shot and sprayed with high pressure hoses by the whale killers. When it comes to putting their lives on the line for the whales, I think they put us Christians to shame.
  #36  
Old 06-06-2009, 01:05 AM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
Hmmm, well I'm not sure how man views an unborn child anymore brother, it seems to depend on whether the child is wanted or not.

For example...

Huron man faces murder, fetal homicide charges
HURON, S.D. (AP) "Beadle County authorities have accused a 42-year-old Huron man of killing his pregnant girlfriend. Court papers show Shannon Flowers faces two counts of first-degree murder and an alternate count of felony fetal homicide in the Thursday death of 20-year-old Brittney Chua and her unborn daughter."
http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=339364

Man faces murder charges for killing fetus
"For the first time in New Mexico, and perhaps the nation, a person is being prosecuted for causing the death of an unborn child. The defendant killed a pregnant 29-year-old woman and has been charged with killing her unborn child, the Albuquerque Journal reports..."
http://newmexicoindependent.com/1353...-killing-fetus



If the abortion laws are changed then yes, it becomes murder? Brother, I appreciate what you are saying, really I do. But the simple fact we agree on is, despite decades of euphemisms and semantics, abortion is already murder no matter what the law of man says. America has hidden herself from this fact, and swallowed the devil's medicine on abortion.



I think you have a good point there, but just like the police officers or soldiers or citizens who are killing to protect the lives of the innocent I think it's at least possible that Tiller's killer was saved and carrying out what he thought was correct in light of Genesis 9:6...
"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."



Hmmm, nice try, but the prostitute's primary goal is not murdering her customers, she may not even be aware that she has AIDS, she may insist the "john" use condoms, etc... so lots of variables there and not really apples to apples brother. The mass murderer who has already killed 50,000 has one purpose; premeditated murder for hire. A man like Tiller is a professional baby butcher, and he stacks them up in the freezer until they are burned in the furnace.

Look, I think everyone has made some good points, I appreciate all this talk of "who has rights" and "who has authority." But let's be clear, I KNOW WHAT MAN'S LAW STATES. I'm not discussing man's law, I'm wondering if the blood of 40 million murdered children in America alone since Roe vs. Wade has given us Bible people a reason to remember what is RIGHT and WRONG according to the Bible. That's all.

I have no idea what motivated Tiller's killer, it may come as a surprise to all of us. It's an interesting discussion. Meanwhile, today we have a president who voted to withhold life sustaining care to children who are BORN ALIVE in abortion clinics. As for me, I am meditating on this...

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matt. 25:40
Brother Parrish, as soon as I can be shown Scripture that I am a Vigilante For Christ and that I should be an ambassador for Christ using the methods of murder and tactics of the unfruitful works of darkness, I'll then form a guerrilla band that they'll write books about and be talking about 200 years from now. I'll commit murder to prevent murder and cast out Satan using Satan. Would that work brother?

Grace and peace

Tony
  #37  
Old 06-06-2009, 01:22 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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BroP,

then put your life on the line for Babies how ever don't take the life of the abortion giver who is allowed to under law. get between the people and the doorway of their clinic. but beware of the free access to abortion clinic law. you will be arrested for obstruction and other crimes under the newer laws and you will be placed in Jail where you can witness to many many lost men. while you await trial and during your incarceration.

Now how is killing doctors glorifying Jesus Christ?

so intervene get to those who are wanting to use these clinics. get involved quit asking hypothetical questions and get off your chair from in front of that TV set and get to your nearest abortion clinic and put your life on the line. Put your money where your mouth is.
  #38  
Old 06-06-2009, 10:46 AM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
BroP,
so intervene get to those who are wanting to use these clinics. get involved quit asking hypothetical questions and get off your chair from in front of that TV set and get to your nearest abortion clinic and put your life on the line. Put your money where your mouth is.
Chette, I have actually done that, have you?

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 06-06-2009 at 10:54 AM.
  #39  
Old 06-06-2009, 11:04 AM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Brother Parrish, as soon as I can be shown Scripture that I am a Vigilante For Christ and that I should be an ambassador for Christ using the methods of murder and tactics of the unfruitful works of darkness, I'll then form a guerrilla band that they'll write books about and be talking about 200 years from now. I'll commit murder to prevent murder and cast out Satan using Satan. Would that work brother?

Grace and peace

Tony
Hmmm, I don't know brother... I wouldn't suggest it or expect it.
Look, you're making judgment calls yourself, not just me.
Let's see, what were your exact words...

"goose-stepping Catholic socio-psychopaths."

Tony, I haven't suggested any vigilantism anywhere here.
Personally, I have found the BEST way to counter abortion is with the Gospel, I'm just asking questions about how we arrive at our conclusions about the recent events, and you're getting all uptight.
  #40  
Old 06-06-2009, 11:32 AM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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I think the best thing we can do as Christians is be informed politically and try to vote in pro-life politicians.

Here is a good pro-life site (Catholic??), that shows how Representatives from each state voted on a variety of bills that is explained.

http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/scorecard...=110&x=13&y=13

The higher the score on the right, the more pro-life (by this site's standards). I live in Connecticut, one Republican voted to support just one bill for a total percentage of 14%, all the rest scored 0%. Horrible.

Take a look at the maps (click on the red numbers for each bill) and you see the same pattern over and over. The Southern, and Western states are generally pro-life, New Enland, the Midwest, and the West Coast are pro-death.

I think this is significant, the Southern and Western states tend to be more religiously conservative, the other side less so. This is a religious issue whether anyone cares to see it or not.

If Christians could educate their fellow citizens, then perhaps we could vote out the liberal pro-death politicians and elect those pro-life. This is the only solution I see (plus lots of confession and prayer to God).
 

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