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  #1  
Old 01-09-2009, 06:29 PM
llthomasjr
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Default Personal convictions....= Man Made doctrine

I have heard time and time again.... people saying...

" that's just my personal conviction". or "its just between me and the Lord"

But don't personal convictions = man made doctrine?

For example ...

Personal = Man Made

Convictions = Doctrine

Another example.... the issue of women always having to wear dresses....

Now some will say that's just my "personal conviction"..... but

They will try to use the bible to prove it....(not personal anymore) and also they think......they are right with God because they do such... (definitely not personal anymore)

Arn't personal convictions most of the time "Man made doctrine"? Especially if we think ourselves righteous for living by such standards. If they are biblically based.... then they are not personal.... right...

What you think?
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Old 01-09-2009, 06:38 PM
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Personal covction, would be a doctrine. Better said IMHO.
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:55 PM
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MC1171611 MC1171611 is offline
 
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Personal convictions, if they really are that, are not doctrine at all. A conviction is something that a person does or believes that is quietly between him and the Lord. For instance, I haven't seen my mom in pants since I was about 5 years old. But she also hasn't gone around talking about other women who do choose to wear pants. Her decision to wear only dresses and skirts is between her, my dad, and the Lord.

Whether it's hair, dress length, movies, dating, color of underwear (!?!) or anything else: personal convictions are completely fine. When it moves into the public realm, however, is when it can easily become a problem. Paul talked about living in the Spirit, serving the Lord in church and being a good outward testimony to unbelievers: he didn't get onto people for going to the theater or wearing pants.

Like a great old preacher said, If you're all worried about pants on women, that must mean you've been doin' a lot of lookin'!

Just keep the convictions personal ("standards" is a better word): when they cease to be personal is when they usually become a problem.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:36 AM
Julianus
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Would you say that Noah had 'personal' convictions regarding to God's will?
How about the disciples/apostles - were they personally convicted to follow Jesus? How did they know - by revelation? By someone talking?
How did Moses come to see that he was to reject his Egyptian training? And how personal was that - to start with?
Was it Cornelius' personal conviction to call for Peter? And was it Peter's personal conviction (as a Hebrew) to go and see what that Gentile desired?

EVERYTHING is based on personal & individual revelation between a soul and God. And people following someone else's convictions & visions are merely 'spiritual couch potatoes' - unwilling, unable, frightened, ignorant or simply too lazy to SEEK their God and start their personal walk.

No preacher's sermons can be used to excuse one's failure in finding out what God's plan for him/her is. It wont work saying: " Hey God, I never bothered asking you directly what YOU want me to do - and anyway, the preacher said I'm safe as long as I attend regularly, support the church and quote the current magic formulas, oops - prayers.

Personal convictions are everything - everythings else are lukewarm excuses.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:49 AM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llthomasjr View Post
Arn't personal convictions most of the time "Man made doctrine"? Especially if we think ourselves righteous for living by such standards. If they are biblically based.... then they are not personal.... right...

What you think?
A personal conviction is when a person (you or I included) is convinced by their conscience about something, whether it be right or wrong, true or false. Every one of us has them, and none of us agree absolutely about everything in life because we have different personal convictions. So they are very important.

While God's word is THE truth, and final authority in all matters of faith and practise for the Bible believing Christian, we still don't always agree on eveything in it. Call it private interpretation or personal conviction, the fact is we don't all agree on eveything when it comes to the word of God. God knows this, and so He tells each of His children to work it out, to be fully persuaded in our mind, and if we choose to ignore certain truth so be it, we will be accountable:

Philippians 2:12b ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Romans 14:5b Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I don't like the "personal conviction" excuse any more than you do when it comes to something in the Bible that I see and understand to be so clear and simple, but I have grown enough in the Lord to know that Christians are all at different levels of spiritual growth, and that over time personal convictions DO change. They may not change to be exactly the same as mine, but I will not be giving an account at the judgment seat of Christ for anyone else's personal convictions but my own!
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian View Post
A personal conviction is when a person (you or I included) is convinced by their conscience about something, whether it be right or wrong, true or false. Every one of us has them, and none of us agree absolutely about everything in life because we have different personal convictions. So they are very important.

While God's word is THE truth, and final authority in all matters of faith and practice for the Bible believing Christian, we still don't always agree on everything in it. Call it private interpretation or personal conviction, the fact is we don't all agree on everything when it comes to the word of God. God knows this, and so He tells each of His children to work it out, to be fully persuaded in our mind, and if we choose to ignore certain truth so be it, we will be accountable:

Philippians 2:12b ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Romans 14:5b Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I don't like the "personal conviction" excuse any more than you do when it comes to something in the Bible that I see and understand to be so clear and simple, but I have grown enough in the Lord to know that Christians are all at different levels of spiritual growth, and that over time personal convictions DO change. They may not change to be exactly the same as mine, but I will not be giving an account at the judgment seat of Christ for anyone else's personal convictions but my own!
Excellent. Wise counsel, Brother Kiwi.

Quote:
I don't like the "personal conviction" excuse any more than you do when it comes to something in the Bible that I see and understand to be so clear and simple, but I have grown enough in the Lord to know that Christians are all at different levels of spiritual growth, and that over time personal convictions DO change. They may not change to be exactly the same as mine, but I will not be giving an account at the judgment seat of Christ for anyone else's personal convictions but my own!
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: " Personal convictions....= Man Made doctrine"

Aloha Julianus,

While much of what you have said is true, your statement:
Quote:
"Personal convictions are everything - everythings else are lukewarm excuses."
Misses a very important fact. And that is - there is "The Truth"; "the Whole Truth"; and "Nothing But The Truth"; found in the Holy "Scripture of Truth", that has NOTHING to do with "personal convictions", but is instead the only "standard" and "final authority" by which to judge all "personal convictions".

Please check out my Post at: http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...27&postcount=5

All of the Bible Truths declared in that Post (25 Major Doctrines) have nothing to do with "personal convictions", and everything to do with the immutable Truth of God's Holy word (totally separate from any "personal convictions" I may. or may not have about them).

We all have "personal convictions" - some may line up with the Bible and some may not. But "personal convictions" are NOT "everything" - God and His Holy word are everything, and the best of motives and intentions ("personal convictions") are no substitute for the Holy words of God.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
  #8  
Old 01-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Julianus
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Aloha too, George
thanks for filling in the 'obvious' blanks in my post.

As you have eagerly & effectively demonstrated, this forum enjoys the audience of diligent readers - and you have my deepest respect for showing yourself being just such.

However, your 25 precepts were not challenged. Yet even those can only be acknowledged/believed by someone who has experienced through personal 'revelation / quickening' by the Holy Spirit, the Truth they contain. To anyone else they might seem to be just fables, hearsay, old wive's tales - anecdotes at best. Hence the reluctance of the people in the world to 'believe' what you, me and many more KNOW to be true.

Our Faith doesn't come from books or stories. Neither did the Faith of those during the time of Christ. Whilst it's easy for us to quote plenty of 'dead' (not yet quickened by the Holy Spirit in our own life) Scriptures to construct a case against the world, they will not have a bar of it - until God reveals Himself to them personally.

And whilst our time is being taken up discussing the 'depths of doctrines, confirming yet again how satan wages war against God & the saints' ... corrupt preachers, mega-churches and modern-day-apostles mislead the gullible masses to 'gild' their pockets.

.... may God richly bless you and open other avenues for effectual banter .... ;-)
  #9  
Old 01-11-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian View Post
Philippians 2:12b ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Kiwi...

Actually, I do love that whole verse and have used it to convey to people the folly of depending upon "conscience"...

Php*2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

That verse certainly lets me know the unbelievable gravity of the act Jesus went through to save us from ourselves. Thank you, Brother, for reminding us that God is with us even though He is not sitting in the same room...that we can depend on Him at all times.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:49 PM
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PB1789 PB1789 is offline
 
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Kiwi Christian: --- Good Post/Good Points!

Hope the Thread Starter reads it... It should be helpful to all.


Illustration time ---- My "Personal Conviction" is that Mint-N-Chip Ice Cream is the best Ice Cream. 20 years ago I liked Chocolate Chip the best, and before that Chocolate was mine... Now, there are some misguided souls ( like my Mom) who will ruin a perfectly good gallon of Ice Cream by putting Black Walnuts in it, or worse; marshmallows and desicrate it beyond all repair.

Does that mean I should say that Mom was a bad person...? Nope, it just means that I should make sure the freezer is stocked with my favorite flavor! Capeche ?

Another thought/Remembrance that might be helpful to the Thread Starter (Thomas) has to do with a Church matter. Several years back I was one of the Sunday School teachers and member of the Board of Directors (They didn't call it a Deacon/Elder Board) of a Church of the Nazarene in So.Cal.. There was a motion during one of the meetings to repaint the Church exterior. It had been a dark white/light biege sort of color with blue doors/door frames.

The proposed color scheme was "Mauve and Teal"...Well as I said in the meeting: ... "I know that a Teal is a breed of Duck, but what is a "Mauve"...? Turns out it was a very ugly dark-dirty pink color... UGH!!
I voted NO but the proposal was passed. We wound-up with a dark pink Church with blue-green doors... UUGGLLEEEE !!!

My "personal conviction" is/was that sane people with normal color-vision would not pull their car into the parking lot to visit us with that ugly exterior... But neither I, nor the other Board members (the color-blind ones) could point to a Bible Verse that tells us what color to paint the church building with... Therefore you have to use "horse sense" sometimes...

Last edited by PB1789; 01-11-2009 at 06:16 PM.
 

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