Bible Studies Post and discuss short Bible studies.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-03-2009, 06:49 PM
Bro. Parrish
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default



LEVIATHAN in the Bible
Fire Breathing Dragon, Dinosaur or Myth?

Now let's take a look at Job 41 and LEVIATHAN...

Job 41 describes LEVIATHAN as a very powerful dragon or dragon-like marine creature, and having the ability to spew fire out of its mouth. That's right friends, I said FIRE. Many evolutionists and critics of our Bible have used this passage to try and cast doubt on God's Word. No doubt many debates have been peppered with those attempting to ridicule the Bible by making remarks about the "mythical fire breathing dragons of Job 41." But regardless of what others may say, the Bible does indeed indicate that Leviathan was very real, and a fire-spitter at that:

"Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, AND A FLAME GOETH OUT OF HIS MOUTH." Job 41:19-20

So like it or not, it is evident from scripture that God created some type of creature that had a fiery breath!

Animals that make fire?
Some have suggested that this means some dinosaurs could breathe fire. Could methane or some other gas have been used by the dragons of old? There have been some good articles written by Creationists about this, with references to the Bombardier Beetle, which sprays a high-temperature jet of gas for protection (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes), but to my knowledge this is not fire. We know of the Spitting Cobra, a serpent that can easily project venom several feet with enough accuracy to hit a man directly in the eyes, but this is not fire. We know that some of God's creatures produce a glowing bioluminescence, and the Electric Eel can produce 600 volts of electricity on demand, but again--this is not fire. Some have drawn attention to the fact that natural arsene gas (AsH 3 ) and phosphorous forms diphosphane gas (P 2 H 4 ), and when these gases come into contact with oxygen they will spontaneously ignite. This is all very interesting, you can read more about that here:
http://www.creationworldview.org/art...view.asp?id=50

Ocean dweller of old...
But let me say up front, I'm not sure Leviathan really was a dinosaur or any other "normal" animal. This would be opposed to BEHEMOTH, (Job 40) which appears to be simply a large, herbivorous sauropod dinosaur with a tail like a cedar tree. Unlike Behemoth, Leviathan appears to be an ocean dwelling creature that God made to "play in the sea." (Psalm 104:24-26, Job 41:31). Isaiah 27:1 calls Leviathan "the dragon that is in the sea." The Bible states, "He maketh a path to shine after him," (Job 41:32) and I can tell you from experience this may be a reference to the bioluminescent path given off by microscopic marine life at night when animals or people move through the water. I have seen this many times in warm tropical waters, it is a sight to behold.

Leviathan is used five times in our King James Bible; twice in Job, twice in Psalms and once in Isaiah. From what I can read in the Bible, Leviathan was very unique, possibly a one-of-a-kind fire breathing, monster of a beast that was impervious to the weapons of that day like spears or arrows (Job 41:28-29). The Bible suggests Leviathan was covered with scales (Job 41:15).


Artist's rendering of a Mosasaur

Some Creationists and dinosaur experts have suggested that a Mosasaur or Kronosaur would fit this description. Still others have suggested a whale, which perhaps appeared to people of Bible times to blow "hot steam" out of its blowhole. But whales have no scales, and I think any of those above (including the marine dinosaurs) could have been killed by men with harpoons and ships. According to recent findings, Kronosaurus and Mosasaurs were only 30-60 feet long, while modern whales top out at about 100 feet, and men have taken those for centuries with harpoons and small wooden vessels.

A few more thoughts...
I do not see a long line of Leviathans, like we see with dinosaurs, but only one, and the Bible states clearly: "Upon earth THERE IS NOT HIS LIKE, who is made without fear." (Job 41:33) I suppose it is possible there were more of them before this passage was written, but it appears there was only one at the time of Job. The Bible portrays Leviathan as a frightening creature, but there is no mention of it killing anyone or attacking people in this passage. Although it appears to be difficult for men to kill Leviathan, the creature is not immortal; God Himself kills Leviathan and gives the meat to people in the wilderness. "Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness." (Psalm 74:14) The term "heads" (plural) here is very interesting. Did the Leviathan have more then one head? Was this the same fire-breathing creature mentioned in Job 41 or a reference to something else perhaps in Revelation... I don't know, but it's called Leviathan and it appears to have a physical body that was used for meat.

Legends abound...
There have been various legends handed down about a creature called "Leviathan" in different cultures. For example, according to the ancient Jewish midrash, the Leviathan was created on the fifth day (Yalkut, Gen. 12). Originally God produced a male and a female leviathan, but to keep them from multiplying and destroying the world, He slew the female, reserving her flesh for the banquet that will be given to the righteous on the advent of the Messiah. In a legend recorded in a Midrash called Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer it is stated that the whale which swallowed Jonah narrowly avoided being eaten by the Leviathan, which generally eats one whale each day. Of course, we can't give any of these legends the same authority as scripture.

Other interpretations...
To be fair; there are other views and interpretations on this. I won't give much credit to those who consider Leviathan to be a simple crocodile (which can be easily taken by men with spears or darts), but some very good authors consider at least some of the references to Leviathan to be Satan or a demonic monster associated with Satan, and that is certainly possible (Isaiah 27:1-3). As we know, Satan is called a dragon many times throughout chapters 12 and 13 in Revelation. Brother Ruckman makes some very good points on this dragon in his commentaries. Also, some writers suggest that Psalm 74 describes God’s record of salvation for his people, and verses 13 and 14 refer symbolically to his deliverance of Israel from Egypt. They point out that here the term "tannin" [Heb., than‧ni‧nim′, plural of tan‧nin′] is used as a parallel expression to “Leviathan,” and the crushing of the heads of Leviathan may well refer to the crushing defeat administered to Pharaoh and his army at the time of the Exodus.

Still, in my opinion, it seems that Job 41 is carefully describing some type of specific, unusual PHYSICAL creature in this passage, not just a spiritual one. Of course, all of this will be subject to debate and friendly discussion. Frightening dinosaur or fire-breathing monster, Leviathan is very interesting, and it must have been an awesome sight!

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 01-03-2009 at 07:18 PM.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #22  
Old 01-04-2009, 05:45 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

Well, I believe Leviathan breathed fire simply because the Bible says so. This is also backed up by many reports of "fire-breathing dragons" reported by many various civilizations over the centuries. Just because people think it fantastic doesn't mean it isn't so.

Here is petroglyph of a fire breathing dragon:



Here is the caption that came with this photo:

On the right, one of the curious "dinosaur" petroglyphs near Middle Mesa at the Wypatki National Park, photographed by Chris Maier after a guided two day hike to the site. This particular petroglyph is called "Puff the Magic Dragon", and appears to be a depiction of a fire breathing dinosaur. It is not possible to date petroglyphs because the rocks from which they are made contain no organic materials.

"The ages of the petroglyphs on this panel and the ones we would later see are unknown. They are believed to be at least several hundred years old, but they may be as old as a thousand years or more."


There is no way to positively date this petroglyph, but it is thought to be at a minimum several hundred years old, well before dinosaurs were discovered.

It is also possible that these creatures spit a very caustic chemical. The venom of the spitting cobra is known to burn the skin. Very many creatures such as jellyfish have the ability to burn the skin. So perhaps the fire breathing dragons spit a very caustic venom that could burn a person to death. When you consider the numerous creatures that already have these abilities, it is really not so fantastic whatsoever.

The electic eel is known to produce an electric shock strong enough to stun a horse, so why is breathing fire so unusual?
  #23  
Old 01-04-2009, 06:07 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

There are also countless stories of huge sea monsters. Here is a report made by the captain of the German U-Boat U-28 in WWI

"On July 30, 1915, our U-28 torpedoed the British steamer Iberian, which was carrying a rich cargo across the North Atlantic. The steamer sank so swiftly that its bow stuck up almost vertically into the air. Moments later the hull of the Iberian disappeared. The wreckage remained beneath the water for approximately twenty-five seconds, at a depth that was clearly impossible to assess, when suddenly there was a violent explosion, which shot pieces of debris - among them a gigantic aquatic animal - out of the water to a height of approximately 80-feet.

"At that moment I had with me in the conning tower six of my officers of the watch, including the chief engineer, the navigator, and the helmsman. Simultaneously we all drew one another's attention to this wonder of the seas, which was writhing and struggling among the debris. We were unable to identify the creature, but all of us agreed that it resembled an aquatic crocodile, which was about 60-feet long, with four limbs resembling large webbed feet, a long, pointed tail and a head which also tapered to a point. Unfortunately we were not able to take a photograph, for the animal sank out of sight after ten or fifteen seconds."


This is a fascinating report because it was made by a military officer at a time of war, it would be hard to believe someone in this capacity would make up such an outrageous tale.

National Geographic reported the discovery of a sea monster dubbed the "T-Rex of the Ocean" a few years back. It was said to have teeth the size of cucumbers.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-monsters.html
  #24  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:11 PM
Bro. Parrish
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Great comments, thanks for that information!
  #25  
Old 01-05-2009, 01:34 PM
illusionznc's Avatar
illusionznc illusionznc is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Asheboro, NC
Posts: 34
Default

Well, I'm going to do some research on this topic, but for the knowledge I have at the moment, the Earth is roughly around 6,000 years old. So, I don't believe dinosaurs walking the Earth millions of years ago (according to science) is possible. The Bible is clear that Adam, the first man, lived only 6000 years ago. Adam was created on the sixth day of God's Creation Week, so the Earth must be only 6000 years old too. If there were dinosaurs, they are not millions of years old as science would have us believe.

(To elaborate some on my reasoning) Say for example in our times today. We have animals that are instinct, and some that will most likely become extinct. If the Earth were to last generations to come, these fossils of animals that have become extinct in our time, may appear to be somewhat of "dinosaurs" in the later generations of people. As I am sure that animals in the past appear to us. I am not sold on the whole carbon dating idea as a whole. It can be useful, but I don't believe it to be completely accurate. To my knowledge and understanding, the scientific idea of dinosaurs walking the Earth millions of years ago is a misguided fabrication. I would better believe the theory of strange animals unknown to us being wiped out by the flood of Noah's day.

Last edited by illusionznc; 01-05-2009 at 01:57 PM.
  #26  
Old 01-05-2009, 02:08 PM
illusionznc's Avatar
illusionznc illusionznc is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Asheboro, NC
Posts: 34
Default

Just to make myself clear, I am not saying dinosaurs did not exist, just that they could not have existed millions of years ago.
  #27  
Old 01-05-2009, 06:08 PM
Bro. Parrish
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for your comments, brother. I can certainly respect your views, despite the arguments from the school of uniformitarianism and the old-earth geologists, there is actually plenty of real evidence for a young earth. More on that here:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...y-age-of-earth

As I stated in my opening post on this thread, those T-Rex blood cells and soft tissues don't look 70 million years old to me!
  #28  
Old 01-05-2009, 07:05 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

Yes, and I want to make it clear that I am definitely a young Earth creationist. I also believe the Earth to be only around 6,000 years old.

I also agree that well preserved dinosaurs that have been found in the last few years are tremendous evidence that dinosaurs lived very recently. I believe the countless stories of dragons that are common to many various civilizations over the centuries proves that man lived with dinosaurs.

Here are beautiful dinosaurs from the Mesopotamian Cylinder Seal that are dated approx. 3300 B.C.. The detail is stunning.



On the right is an artist's conception of the Apatasaurus, once called the Brontosaurus. The only difference is the head, but only one single fossil head for the Apatasaurus has ever been found, future discoveries may show this ancient artwork to be correct.

Here is some beautiful artwork showing three men going out to battle a dinosaur.



This is called the Nile Mosiac of Palestrina. It is believed to be the work of Demetrius the Topographer, an artist from Alexandria. The work shows everyday life along the Nile. Skeptics have called this a distorted crocodile, which is ridiculous, because perfectly normal crocodiles appear in the artwork.

Here is a detailed article on this art with much better photos.

http://s8int.com/phile/dinolit56.html

Evolutionists try very hard to discredit art like this, but the overwhelming evidence is that man lived side-by-side with dinosaurs.

I also personally believe that Genesis 6:4 is not merely speaking of men, but speaking of all life on the Earth generally.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Now, this verse may be talking about men only, but I believe it is talking about all life. Everything was huge in those days, gigantic dragonflies have been found, crocodiles nearly 50 feet long...
  #29  
Old 01-06-2009, 04:42 AM
stephanos's Avatar
stephanos stephanos is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wenatchee WA
Posts: 885
Default

Not sure if this is real, but it's at least worth a laugh.



Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #30  
Old 01-06-2009, 04:12 PM
Bro. Parrish
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

LOL, Pterosaur meets the Civil War... unfortunately I think that one is hoax, but you're right, it's pretty funny! Come on we all know there is no such thing as a living fossil... (OOPS apologies to all the evolutionists, please ignore the link below)...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...oelacanth.html

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 01-06-2009 at 04:22 PM.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com