Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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  #131  
Old 12-20-2008, 11:41 PM
BrianT
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Hi Steve,

Quote:
No, there is quite a clear contextual change after verse 24.
No there's not. Verse 25 starts with "But", which means it's continuing the same thought (even the same sentence, KJV punctuation notwithstanding). Verse 26 starts with "For", again continuing the same thought.

Quote:
That should help you out doctrinally, if you read Matthew Henry.
Are you serious? Did you read Matthew Henry? Did you read where he says of verse 24:

Quote:
"The law was designed for a schoolmaster, to bring men to Christ, v. 24. In the foregoing verse, the apostle acquaints us with the state of the Jews under the Mosaic economy, that before faith came, or before Christ appeared and the doctrine of justification by faith in him was more fully discovered, they were kept under the law, obliged, under severe penalties, to a strict observance of the various precepts of it"
and
Quote:
"And thus it was their schoolmaster, to instruct and govern them in their state of minority, or, as the word paidagogos most properly signifies, their servant, to lead and conduct them to Christ (as children were wont to be led to school by those servants who had the care of them); that they might be more fully instructed by him as their schoolmaster, in the true way of justification and salvation, which is only by faith in him, and of which he was appointed to give the fullest and clearest discoveries. But lest it should be said, If the law was of this use and service under the Jewish, why may it not continue to be so under the Christian state too, the apostle adds (v. 25) that after faith has come, and the gospel dispensation has taken place, under which Christ, and the way of pardon and life through faith in him, are set in the clearest light, we are no longer under a schoolmaster—we have no such need of the law to direct us to him as there was then."
and of verse 25:

Quote:
"The great fault and folly of the Jews, in mistaking the design of the law, and abusing it to a very different purpose from that which God intended in the giving of it; for they expected to be justified by the works of it, whereas it was never designed to be the rule of their justification, but only a means of convincing them of their guilt and of their need of a Saviour, and of directing them to Christ, and faith in him, as the only way of obtaining this privilege."
and of verse 26:

Quote:
How they come to obtain this privilege, and that is by faith in Christ Jesus. Having accepted him as their Lord and Saviour, and relying on him alone for justification and salvation, they are hereupon admitted into this happy relation to God, and are entitled to the privileges of it"
and

Quote:
"And therefore upon the whole, since it appeared that justification was not to be attained by the works of the law, but only by faith in Christ"
God bless,
Brian
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #132  
Old 12-20-2008, 11:44 PM
BrianT
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Hi bibleprotector,

Quote:
The NKJV already messes up Genesis 1:1, saying that God created the "heavens" in the beginning, when in fact only God's home heaven was made in the beginning,
The Hebrew word is plural in this verse.

God bless,
Brian
  #133  
Old 12-21-2008, 03:26 AM
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The English word is singular in this verse. Moreover, since the King James Bible is right (for various reasons) it must be giving the true sense of the true original. Even the context shows that it is single.

By what authority (other than personal conviction) can you supply, whereby all true believers may be certainly convinced that the objective truth is that "heaven" is (apparently) missing a letter "s"?
  #134  
Old 12-21-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibleprotector View Post
TO BrianT: By what authority (other than personal conviction) can you supply, whereby all true believers may be certainly convinced that the objective truth is that "heaven" is (apparently) missing a letter "s"?
His own lack of faith in God's word. That and his own worldly wisdom and understanding, of course.
  #135  
Old 12-21-2008, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: "Why Reject the NKJV?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1171611 View Post
His own lack of faith in God's word. That and his own worldly wisdom and understanding, of course.

Aloha bibleprotector and MC117161,

I quit dealing with "BrianT" after just one Post - it is FUTILE dealing with a Sophist, since they already know all there is to know, and will "not receive instruction", regardless of who it's from. {Especially those of us genuine Bible believers on this Forum.}

Look at BrianT's last Post In regards to Bibleprotector's statement:

bibleprotector's Quote:
Quote:
"The NKJV already messes up Genesis 1:1, saying that God created the "heavens" in the beginning, when in fact only God's home heaven was made in the beginning, whereas heaven (i.e. firmament) was made on day two, and heaven (i.e. astronomical space) was made on day four. Beginning means the beginning of day one. So God did not make heavens in the beginning, but only heaven."
BrianT's Response:
Quote:
"The Hebrew word is plural in this verse."
SO? Which is it? Which English "version" is RIGHT? For both of you (and myself) The King James BIBLE is RIGHT! Why? Because IT is our FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice.

For BrianT "They are ALL RIGHT" - even if they "disagree" with each other! (which is, under any circumstances, IMPOSSIBLE ) WHY? Because HE (BT) is the final arbiter of all Truth! He is his OWN Final Authority! And as such - it is FUTILE to try to convince him of anything! You could talk to a wall and get as much of a satisfactory response, as you will in dealing with a Sophist!

I learned long ago that, once I discover a person is a Sophist - I cease dealing with them (for it is impossible to "reason" with them) and (in time) they disappear, since they have no one to argue with or impress!

Proverbs 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

Proverbs 19:20 Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.

Proverbs 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 5:12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

Proverbs 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Proverbs 29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Proverbs 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Proverbs 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.

The only thing that keeps BrianT coming back with his Humanistic garbage is those of us who continue to deal with him. Ignore him, and he will go away! {After a while.}

There is only one "cure" for a Sophist - and that is if he will humble himself before God, and admit to his own pride and arrogance - something that is nearly impossible for most Sophists to do:

Psalms 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.


Unless BrianT has a "change of heart"; and unless he is willing to humble himself, and his spirit becomes broken before God; and unless he reaches the point where he is willing to submit himself to the words of God (instead of his own mind); he will continue down his road of anarchy and confusion. And even sadder - he may "influence" others to follow after him down the same path to apostasy!

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
  #136  
Old 12-21-2008, 04:21 PM
Bro. Parrish
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The NKJV: A Deadly Translation

"We will now give some special attention to one of the deadliest translations on the market--the New King James Version, first published in 1979. (The New Testament was published in 1979, the Psalms in 1980, and the full NKJV Bible in 1982.) It is a deadly version because it's editors have succeeded in deceiving the body of Christ on two main points: (1) That it's a King James Bible (which is a lie), and (2) that it's based on the Textus Receptus (which is only a partial truth). The following information should be helpful when dealing with Christians who have been swindled by the Laodicean lovers of filthy lucre:

1. The text of the NKJV is copyrighted by Thomas Nelson Publishers, while there is no copyright today on the text of the KJV. If your KJV has maps or notes, then it may have a copyright, but the text itself does not.

2. There's nothing "new" about the NKJV logo. It is a "666" symbol of the pagan trinity which was used in the ancient Egyptian mysteries. It was also used by satanist Aleister Crowley around the turn of this century. The symbol can be seen on the New King James Bible, on certain rock albums (like Led Zepplin's), or you can see it on the cover of such New Age books as The Aquarian Conspiracy. (See Riplinger's tract on the NKJV.)

3. It is estimated that the NKJV makes over 100,000 translation changes, which comes to over eighty changes per page and about three changes per verse! A great number of these changes bring the NKJV in line with the readings of such Alexandrian perversions as the NIV and the RSV. Where changes are not made in the text, subtle footnotes often give credence to the Westcott and Hort Greek Text.

4. While passing off as being true to the Textus Receptus, the NKJV IGNORES the Receptus over 1,200 times.

5. In the NKJV, there are 22 omissions of "hell", 23 omissions of "blood", 44 omissions of "repent", 50 omissions of "heaven", 51 omissions of "God", and 66 omissions of "Lord". The terms "devils", "damnation", "JEHOVAH", and "new testament" are completely omitted.

6. The NKJV demotes the Lord Jesus Christ. In John 1:3, the KJV says that all things were made "by" Jesus Christ, but in the NKJV, all things were just made "through" Him. The word "Servant" replaces "Son" in Acts 3:13 and 3:26. "Servant" replaces "child" in Acts 4:27 and 4:30. The word "Jesus" is omitted from Mark 2:15, Hebrews 4:8, and Acts 7:45.

7. The NKJV confuses people about salvation. In Hebrews 10:14 it replaces "are sanctified" with "are being sanctified", and it replaces "are saved" with "are being saved" in I Corinthians 1:18 and II Corinthians 2:15. The words "may believe" have been replaced with "may continue to believe" in I John 5:13. The old straight and "narrow" way of Matthew 7:14 has become the "difficult" way in the NKJV.

8. In II Corinthians 10:5 the KJV reads "casting down imaginations", but the NKJV reads "casting down arguments". The word "thought", which occurs later in the verse, matches "imaginations", not "arguments". This change weakens the verse.

9. The KJV tells us to reject a "heretick" after the second admonition in Titus 3:10. The NKJV tells us to reject a "divisive man". How nice! Now the Alexandrians and Ecumenicals have justification for rejecting anyone they wish to label as "divisive men".

10. According to the NKJV, no one would stoop so low as to "corrupt" God's word. No, they just "peddle" it (II Cor. 2:17). The reading matches the Alexandrian versions.

11. Since the NKJV has "changed the truth of God into a lie", it has also changed Romans 1:25 to read "exchanged the truth of God for the lie". This reading matches the readings of the new perversions, so how say ye it's a King James Bible?

12. The NKJV gives us no command to "study" God's word in II Timothy 2:15.

13. The word "science" is replaced with "knowledge" in I Timothy 6:20, although "science" has occurred in every edition of the KJV since 1611! How say ye it's a King James Bible?

14. The Jews "require" a sign, according to I Corinthians 1:22 (and according to Jesus Christ - John 4:48), but the NKJV says they only "request" a sign. They didn't "request" one when signs first appeared in Exodus 4, and there are numerous places throughout the Bible where God gives Israel signs when they haven't requested anything (Exo. 4, Exo. 31:13, Num. 26:10, I Sam. 2:34, Isa. 7:10-14, Luke 2:12, etc). They "require" a sign, because signs are a part of their national heritage.

15. The King James reading in II Corinthians 5:17 says that if any man is in Christ he is a new "creature", which matches the words of Christ in Mark 16:15. The cross reference is destroyed in the NKJV, which uses the word "creation."

16. As a final note, we'd like to point out how the NKJV is very inconsistent in it's attempt to update the language of the KJV. The preface to the NKJV states that previous "revisions" of the KJV have "sought to keep abreast of changes in English speech", and also that they too are taking a "further step toward this objective". However, when taking a closer look at the language of the NKJV, we find that oftentimes they are stepping BACKWARDS! Please note a few examples of how well the NKJV has "kept abreast of the changes in the English language": see chart here:
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nkjvdead.htm
  #137  
Old 12-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Bro. Parrish
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The New King James Bible Examined

"WHAT ABOUT THE NEW KING JAMES BIBLE?
In this article, we want to share with God's people some of the important facts which led us to reject the NKJV and warn others about it. We do not believe that the "NKJV makes the KJV even better" as its publishers claim. To the contrary, our study leads us to conclude that the NKJV vitiates the original, reliable, accurate KJV in a most deceptive manner. While claiming to have "preserved the authority and accuracy" of the original KJV, the actual result is a HYBRID TEXT which incorporates many changes identical with or similar to the corruptions found in other modern Bible versions.

Why the New King James Bible? Its publisher, Thomas Nelson Company, says its purpose is "To Preserve the Integrity of the Original in the Language of Today" ... "To preserve the authority and accuracy . . . of the original King James while making it understandable to 20th Century readers" ... "To update with regard to punctuation and grammar; archaic verbs and pronouns"; and "Up-to-date accuracy with regard to words whose English meaning has changed over a period of 3 1/2 centuries." The completed NKJV text is said to be "Beautifully Clear" and "Highly Readable." Thomas Nelson Publishers has spent millions to convince Chr istians that the NKJV is "the" Bible of the present and the future.

Why do we recommend rejection of the NKJV? Space limitations preclude a full discussion of every reason, but we do urge a careful consideration of the following facts. It is essential to know that many of the word changes between the original KJV and the NKJV are not changes which result from removing archaisms, etc. Instead, many are changes which clearly reveal that, contrary to their agreed basis, the NKJV translators departed from the original KJV and its underlying Greek text, the Textus Receptus, in favor of the very same wording found in versions translated from corrupted Greek texts.

The instances in which the NKJV breaks with the original KJV by substituting wording identical to that of corrupted modern Bible versions are too numerous to be considered coincidence. And, since Nelson tells us that the NKJV scholars spent "months of pra yer, research, and discussion over the handling of a single word," we must conclude that these changes were neither coincidental nor accidental.

The following references are listed as examples of the way the translators inserted erroneous words and meanings from corrupted modern Bible versions into the NKJV text:

Titus 3:10-KJV reads, "A man that is an heretick...reject." NKJV and NIV change "heretick" to "divisive man"; RSV and NASV to "factious" man. (The one who holds to heresy is to be rejected, not the one who exposes false doctrine. The new versions confuse who is in mind here).

Acts 4:27-KJV reads, "Thy holy child, Jesus." NKJV, NASV and RSV change "holy child" to "holy servant."

Acts 8:9-KJV reads, "bewitched the people." NKJV and NASV change "bewitched" to "astonished." NIV and RSV change "bewitched" to "amazed."

Romans 1:25-KJV reads, "changed the truth of God into a lie." NKJV, NASV and NIV read "exchanged the truth of God for the lie" or "a lie."

Romans 4:25-KJV reads, "Who was delivered for our offenses and was raised again for our justification." NKJV and NASV change "for" to "because of." (Even the NIV and RSV use the correct word, "for").

2 Corinthians 10:5-KJV reads, "Casting down imaginations." NKJV, NIV and RSV change "imaginations" to "arguments."

Colossians 3:2-KJV reads, "Set your affection on things above." NKJV, NASV, NIV and RSV change "affection" to "mind."

1 Thessalonians 5:22-KJV reads, "Abstain from all appearance of evil." NKJV, NASV and RSV change "appearance" to "form."

2 Timothy 2:15-KJV reads, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God." NKJV and NASV change "study" to "be diligent." NIV and RSV change "study" to "do your best."

Old Testament examples include:

Psalm 79:1-the word "heathen" in the KJV is changed to "nations" in the NKJV, NASV and NIV.

Isaiah 11:3-the entire phrase, "And shall make Him of quick understanding" in the KJV is eliminated in the NKJV, NASV, NIV and RSV.

Isaiah 66:5-the wonderful phrase, "But He shall appear to your joy" in the KJV disappears without explanation from NKJV, NASV, NIV and RSV.

Daniel 3:25-the fourth person who was in the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, was identified as "the Son of God." The same identification is given in the text of the NKJV but a footnote reads "or, a son of the gods," and both NIV and NA SV actually have the latter reading in their texts.

In other Old Testament portions, the word "evil" in the KJV is replaced by several different words-doom, disaster, calamity, catastrophe, trouble, adversity, terrible, harm, wild. In four different places in 1 and 2 Kings, "sodomites" is changed to "perve rted persons."

The NKJV does not deserve its respected name. It is a perverted version.

Additional examples of significant changes would include the following: Matthew 4:24; 6:13; 7:14; 20:20; Mark 4:19; John 14:2; Acts 17:29; Romans 1:18; Philippians 2:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 1 Timothy 6:5, 10, 20; Hebrews 2:16; 10:14; James 1:15; 1 Peter 1:7.

A striking word change involves changing "corrupt" to "peddling" in 2 Corinthians 2:17. The KJV correctly says, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the Word of God...." But the NKJV, NASV, NIV and RSV, change "corrupt" to "peddling." Is there any great difference between peddling (selling, or making a gain of) the Word of God and corrupting (adulterating) it? Of course there is, and one does not have to be a Greek scholar to decide which word is correct. When this warning was given in the 1st Century, was there any way for people to peddle (make a gain of) God's Word? Of course not-they were suffering for it. The warning clearly refers to corrupting God's Word, something that was common then as it is now. Only in our day has it ever been possible to pe ddle (make a gain of) the Bible. With its huge profits from the sale of many different Bible versions, the Thomas Nelson Publishers is both corrupting and peddling God's Word..."
plenty more here:
http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/reynolds-nkjv.html
  #138  
Old 12-21-2008, 05:09 PM
BrianT
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Hi all,

Quote:
The English word is singular in this verse. Moreover, since the King James Bible is right (for various reasons) it must be giving the true sense of the true original.
That is a circular argument, and also means scripture was in error until the KJV "corrected" this error.

Quote:
Even the context shows that it is single.
Unless the first verse is an overview of what the next two chapters talk about.

Quote:
By what authority (other than personal conviction) can you supply, whereby all true believers may be certainly convinced that the objective truth is that "heaven" is (apparently) missing a letter "s"?
I do not pretend my view is authoritative. However, if using a plural is wrong, than scripture was broken for millennia, which I cannot accept. Also, it means the KJV is not a preservation of scripture, but a correction of scripture. The NKJV agrees with the Hebrew in this verse, and I cannot call it an error without saying scripture was always in error. If you can do that, that's your choice, but I don't see why my reluctance to say scripture was always in error until 1611 causes some here to oppose me, and take threads off topic just so they can be spiritually condescending, call me names and misrepresent my views.

God bless,
Brian
  #139  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianT View Post
That is a circular argument, and also means scripture was in error until the KJV "corrected" this error.
Not at all. The Scripture was always correct. It is apparent that some presentations of the Scripture are corrupt. It meant "heaven" ever since Moses wrote it, and it was "heaven" in English all along. The change to "heavens" in English only happened in the twentieth century. Clearly it is a corruption.

Quote:
Unless the first verse is an overview of what the next two chapters talk about.
What lengths are you willing to go to prove the KJB wrong?

Quote:
I do not pretend my view is authoritative.
Then how do you know the Hebrew means "heavens"? I know it must have meant "heaven" because I know I have an accurate English Bible.

Quote:
Also, it means the KJV is not a preservation of scripture, but a correction of scripture.
So, none of this "all versions including the KJV" stuff: no, now we see it: the KJB is in error. I don't spend my time bashing modern versions, but some people seem to delight in taking up time and space doing anything to bash the KJB. It is quite Islamic!

Quote:
scripture was always in error until 1611
You think that way because you are applying a false meaning to the Hebrew today that did not exist there in the distant past. (Actually, you are not honestly dealing with the idea that you are fighting against, so you end up fighting a dishonest or slanted view of KJBO. It is like the Black Islamic cult saying that all white people are devils.)
  #140  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:53 PM
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I had a NKJV & a NIV, but I burned the corrupt thing's. I only read the Authorized King James Version now.
 

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