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  #51  
Old 04-04-2009, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: "Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck View Post
re·pent 1 (rĭ-pěnt') Pronunciation Key
v. re·pent·ed, re·pent·ing, re·pents

v. intr.
To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.

v. tr.
To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins.
To cause to feel remorse or regret.

[Middle English repenten, from Old French repentir : re-, re- + pentir, to be sorry (from Vulgar Latin *paenitīre, from Latin paenitēre).]
re·pent'er n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Aloha Buck,

Below is Webster's 1828 Dictionary definition for the word repent - Notice the difference?
Quote:
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

REPENT'ANCE, n.
1. Sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.

2. In theology, the pain, regret or affliction which a person feels on account of his past conduct, because it exposes him to punishment. This sorrow proceeding merely from the fear of punishment, is called legal repentance, as being excited by the terrors of legal penalties, and it may exist without an amendment of life.

3. Real penitence; sorrow or deep contrition for sin, as an offense and dishonor to God, a violation of his holy law, and the basest ingratitude towards a Being of infinite benevolence. This is called evangelical repentance, and is accompanied and followed by amendment of life.

Repentance is a change of mind, or a conversion from sin to God.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7. Matt. 3.

Repentance is the relinquishment of any practice, from conviction that it has offended God.
I have said (over & over again) when it comes to SPIRITUAL issues and matters - a Dictionary cannot be our FINAL AUTHORITY as to the "meaning" of words with spiritual significance; and neither can the various Lexicon's (including the Lexicon within Strong's Concordance).

If you want to know the definition of the so-called "archaic" words within the King James Bible (such as: abase, adjure affright, ague, alamoth, ambassage, Euroclydon, eshew, exactors, etc., etc.,) Webster's 1828 Dictionary will suffice; BUT when it comes to the meaning of "spiritual" words such as repent, repentance, justification, faith, believe, body (flesh), soul, spirit, heart, mind, conscience, etc., etc., you will have to study the Bible for the definition.

The Bible is its own best "Dictionary" when it comes to defining "spiritual" words - anything else (Dictionaries, Lexicons, etc.) will only give you the "opinions" of men.

For example: if you want the Bible "definition" for the word HEART, you get a Concordance (Swordsearcher is 10 to 100 times faster and easier than Strong's Concordance) and look up the word "heart" ("hearts" & "hearted"). The word heart (hearts/hearted) occurs approximately 944 times in 884 verses in the Bible. In order to get the Scriptural "meaning" of the word HEART - you have to read all 884 verses where the word occurs (in context), and if you are sincerely seeking the truth, God will show you what the "Biblical" HEART is.

This takes STUDY - this takes WORK, but it is the only way that a person can find out the Scriptural "meaning" of the "spiritual" words in the Bible. And even then, if God doesn't show you the "meaning", you may not "get it"!

Running to a Dictionary or a Lexicon for the "meaning" of "spiritual" words in the Bible is the lazy man's way of "study", and more often than not - it will lead to an erroneous, or false meaning.

My question for you is: WHY are you insisting that REPENTANCE is a PART of our SALVATION? The only "part" we have in our Salvation is we MUST BELIEVE the Gospel: [Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.] PLUS NOTHING!

If "repentance" precedes salvation - fine; if "repentance" follows salvation - fine; BUT "repentance" is NOT A REQUIREMENT for our Salvation, BELIEVING the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is! The problem with insisting that we must "repent" of our sins BEFORE we can be saved is: WHAT if we "MISS" some of the sins we have committed because of "ignorance" -can we be saved? I have been saved for over 50 years, and I am becoming more aware of "SIN" in my life that I never knew existed (within my heart) just a few years ago!

SIN is exceedingly SINFUL; and as such, we really only have an "inkling" of just how wicked and sinful we really are. The closer we get to the Lord Jesus Christ the more we realize this truth. It is impossible to REPENT of ALL of our sins, we aren't even aware of half of them!

It's by God's Grace; it's by God's Love; it's by God's Mercy; it's by Christ's Sacrifice for all of my sins that I am saved. I could have been in continual "repentance" from October 1958 up until now and that wouldn't PAY for my SINS! My "REPENTANCE" wouldn't satisfy God's REQUIREMENT for my SINS - the shedding of the Lord's Jesus Christ's BLOOD for my SINS; the death of my SAVIOUR for my SINS!

I am exceedingly SINFUL, and IF the Lord Jesus Christ's sacrifice on Calvary is not enough to PAY for ALL of my sins, all of the "repentance" (on my part) in the world isn't going to save me!

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I am JUSTIFIED in God's eyes - NOT because I "repented" of my sins, but because I believed the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in JesusChrist, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
without the deeds of the law.

WHERE IS "REPENTANCE" in ALL of the preceding verses?

The Lord Jesus Christ EARNED my Salvation; He PAID the PRICE REQUIRED for my sins, and not for my sins only, but for the sins of the whole world. "Repentance", on my part, has NOTHING to do with Christ saving me!

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I have been saved "by God's Grace" - and "repentance" (on my part) had absolutely NOTHING to do with His saving me.



The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #52  
Old 04-04-2009, 08:15 PM
Mind and Body Mind and Body is offline
 
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Luke 13:3: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

But what is Biblical repentance, anyway? I haven't gotten a definitive answer.
  #53  
Old 04-04-2009, 08:33 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Mind and Body

That verse has been gone over several times. Look at the entire passage in context.

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Here were people who told Jesus of certain people that were killed by Pilate. And Jesus mentioned eighteen people who were killed when a tower in Siloam fell on them.

In those days, but still today, many people believed when something bad or unfortunate happened to a person(s), that this was proof that these people were exceedingly bad sinners.

And that was the case here. But Jesus told them that they need to repent, or change their viewpoint, that they too were sinners in danger of perishing if they did not see their sinfulness and come to the Lord for forgiveness.

The repentance that is necessary for salvation is to quit trusting in one's own righteousness, or believeing they are saved because they belong to a certain church or religion, and coming to Jesus Christ, trusting that Jesus paid our sin penalty on the cross, died, was buried, and raised from the dead.
  #54  
Old 04-04-2009, 10:37 PM
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Well brothers,
I know history is good.
We have gone from I was wrong, to I was right, to I was wrong. LOL
  #55  
Old 04-05-2009, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind and Body View Post
Luke 13:3: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

But what is Biblical repentance, anyway? I haven't gotten a definitive answer.
I answered that question in post no. 46...
Biblical repentance in essence is a change of mind.

Before I trusted Christ, (30 years ago) I thought about God from time to time, may have casually thought Jesus was a good man, etc. (James 2:19)---but repentance (change of mind) about my pathetic, sinful condition and my urgent need for salvation led me to call on God and accept His free gift. Without repentance I would not have believed in my heart that God raised him from the dead. Without that basic change of mind, I don't see how men can be saved. That's why the Bible says...

"godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation..." 2 Corinthians 7:10

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet. 3:9
  #56  
Old 04-05-2009, 02:11 PM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
I answered that question in post no. 46...
Biblical repentance in essence is a change of mind.

Before I trusted Christ, (30 years ago) I thought about God from time to time, may have casually thought Jesus was a good man, etc. (James 2:19)---but repentance (change of mind) about my pathetic, sinful condition and my urgent need for salvation led me to call on God and accept His free gift. Without repentance I would not have believed in my heart that God raised him from the dead. Without that basic change of mind, I don't see how men can be saved. That's why the Bible says...

"godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation..." 2 Corinthians 7:10

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet. 3:9
Amen & amen. Same applied with me!
  #57  
Old 04-05-2009, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: "Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? & James, Chapter 2: Is Faith all it takes? "

Mind & Body’s Thread & Posts concerning - Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell?:
{bold & underlines in M&B’s Threads and Posts are mine – G.A.}

Aloha Mind & Body,

I have listed your Thread and all of your Posts concerning your question, and my comments follow each Post.

Mind & Body’s THREAD:
Quote:
#1 - Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? {03-19-2009, 03:23 PM}
Hi, I am new here, but, since most everyone here is a Protestant who disagrees with Catholicism, I want a definitive answer, with Biblical evidence. I am a Baptist myself, but I am not convinced that Roman Catholics are damned. If anyone here thinks that they are, then will you please tell me why? Because Chick and the like say that they are.
First of all - your statement: “since most everyone here is a Protestant who disagrees with Catholicism” - demonstrates a Roman Catholic understanding of Christianity, and does not reflect reality (here on the Forum), nor does it reflect the facts of history.

Most of the people on the Forum are NOTProtestants” – most of us come from an “Independent” background {Baptists (all Kinds); Brethren (Plymouth, Grace, etc.); Independent Bible churches ” (all Kinds); “Community” churches (all “flavors”); "Calvary" (all Kinds); “Evangelical” (all flavors); Pentecostal (a few); and various other churches that have NOTHING to do with the Reformation or the “Protestant” churches (Lutheran; Reformed; Presbyterian; Methodist; Anglican; Episcopalian; and the numerous “Off-shoots” from them – Congregational; United Church of Christ; etc.).

It is a Roman Catholic “concept” to consider ALL so-called “Christian” Churches as being “Protestant”, but the facts of history say otherwise. Read: Foxe’s Book of Martyrs (Reformed) or one, or several Church History Books: Schaffs (Episcopalian) - 8 Volumes; LaTourette’s (Baptist)– 12 Volumes; Eardmanns (Various Authors) – about 12 Volumes; Cunningham’s (Presbyterian) 2 Volumes; Ruckman’s (Baptist) – 2 Volumes; or you might even check out Cardinal John Henry Newman’s Church History (Anglican, converted to Roman Catholicism).

Now I am NOT recommending these men, or their writings, what I am claiming is that the “FACTS” about the history of Christianity from the time of Paul up to the present can be found in many “church histories” – IF a reader has the discernment to weed out the personal “bias” of the writer. And the “FACTS” about the history of God’s church is that there have always been small groups of believers (branded “schismatics” by Roman Catholics and later by Protestants) down through the centuries, which were first persecuted by the Roman government; and later by the Roman Catholic Church; and later by the Protestant churches also!

If you “think” that “most everyone here is a Protestant”, you are mistaken, and the reason for your error is because of your Roman Catholic training, upbringing, and education. The history of the church of God NEVER was – First the Apostolic Church; and then the Catholic Church; and then the division between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox; and then the “Protestant” Churches; and that’s ALL! All during the time that the “Kingdom Builders” (Roman Catholic; Eastern Orthodox; and Protestant) were trying to establish God’s “Kingdom” on earth (through fear, intimidation, coercion, and force) there has always been small groups of believers who refused to accept the “Kingdom Builders” doctrines and more often than not, suffered sever persecution for their beliefs – even death.

You had a peculiar way of asking for a “a definitive answer” to a question, by first putting forward your own belief – “but I am not convinced that Roman Catholics are damned” first, and then posing the question. {???} “If anyone here thinks that they are, then will you please tell me why? Because Chick and the like say that they are.” Why do people do this? WHY didn’t you just put forward your question, without your own assertions, if you are sincerely interested in what other people believe?

Many of the answers given by the brethren gave you “a definitive answer” to your question, and that is we are NOT in a position to condemn ALL Roman Catholics to Hell, since we don’t know ANY OF THEIR HEARTS – ONLY GOD KNOWS PEOPLE’S HEARTS! [1 Kings 8:39; 2 Chronicles 6:30; Luke 16:15; Acts 1:24; 1John 3:20] And other than that – there is NOdefinitive answer” to your question! As a matter of fact, your question is a “non sequitur” (as the “scholars” and “educators” would say).

Quote:
Non sequitur
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.:

1. Logic. an inference or a conclusion that does not follow from the premises
2.a statement containing an illogical conclusion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non sequitur
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.:
  • An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.
  • A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
non sequitur
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

A thought that does not logically follow what has just been said: “We had been discussing plumbing, so her remark about astrology was a real non sequitur.” Non sequitur is Latin for “It does not follow.”
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non sequitur
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.:

An inference which does not follow from the premises.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non sequitur
WordNet® 3.0 @ 2006 by Princeton University.

1. a reply that has no relevance to what preceded it
2. (logic) a conclusion that does not follow from the premises
It is very instructive (to me at least) that educated Christians often ask inconsequential and immaterial questions that, on the surface, may appear to be “reasonable”; but when examined carefully, turn out to be “loaded” with difficulty, ambiguity, uncertainty, and dubiousness.

Mind & Body’s POST:
Quote:
#10 - Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? {03-20-2009, 01:36 PM}
I nowhere said that people were saved by Church attendance or denomination or anything other than belief, but I was wondering if anyone here perscribed to the notion that Catholics worship a non-Scriptural Christ, or perhaps that some did not worship Him at all, which would damn them to Hell.
Again your question is a “non sequitur” because (again) we do NOT know ALL Catholics’ hearts, so we don’t have any idea, which of them (if any) have received the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour! However, if you are asking about official Roman Catholic Church doctrine – the “Christ” of Roman Catholic Church doctrine is unable to “save them (Roman Catholics) to the uttermost”, and so it is clear that the “Christ” that the Roman Catholic Church preaches is NOT THE “CHRIST” of the Holy Scriptures.

Mind & Body’s POST:
Quote:
#17 - Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? {03-22-2009, 04:17 PM}
What I meant was, did some here think that Catholics aren't getting to "The Real McCoy", as it were, they are not expressing belief in the Real Christ, only the angry, co-mediatrix, Second-to-Mary type of Jesus that Catholics believe in? because that, I thought, was what damned Catholics to Hell. I really started to have my doubts in Catholicism when my friend Benjamin's mother, a devout Catholic that never misses Mass, suggested in a short conversation that God might be Female. She said of the Bible, which clearly teaches otherwise, that "the opinions of the writers got mixed up in the writings." I really was so flabbergasted that I had then nothing to say to her, but I can tell you that I am almost sure that she is not Born-Again.
Once Again your question is a “non sequitur” because (once again) we do NOT know ALL Catholics’ hearts! It doesn’t really matter WHAT we “THINK”, the fact is we have no idea which Catholics (if any) have believed the Gospel (that Paul preached – 1Corinthians 15:1-4) and have received the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour.

It’s always a dangerous thing for Christians to try to determine (judge) WHO is saved, and WHO is NOT. The only thing we can say with certainty is, in order for a person to be genuinely saved – they MUST BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ as presented in the Holy Scriptures (and NOT some church’s representation of Him), and they MUST individually (personally) RECEIVE Him as their Saviour, in order to become a son of God.

Mind & Body’s POST:
Quote:
#29 - Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? {03-23-2009, 09:22 PM}
I just don't understand why most Catholics think that their religion is the only way to heaven. Since the Vatican II Council, Protestants are no longer to be called "heretics", but instead "separated brethren". But hyper-Catholic Web sites like NewAdvent.org still calls Protestants heretics and says that they are damned to hell. It is just not in the Whore's best intrest to be so divisive...
It’s quite simple really - most “religions” (Hinduism, Buddhism, Mohammedism – “Islam”, etc.) believe that “their way” is the “ONLY WAY”. The same goes for many “Christian” Denominations and Sects. As a side note, today most secular HUMANISTS (Humanism is a religion/philosophy) believe exactly the SAME {their "way" ("psychiatry" & "psychology") is the "ONLY WAY"} as most “religionists”! Today’s Humanists are as “bigoted”, close-minded, and “prejudiced” as the persecuting Roman Catholic Priests of the 12th and 13th Centuries!

It is always in the “best interest” of any False Religion to present as many “faces” as they can, in order to “mask” their true beliefs or doctrines; in order to “deceive the hearts of the simple”! [Romans 16:18] {Did you notice that the Scriptures didn’t say in order to: deceive the (MINDS) of the simple – the Scriptures said to “deceive the HEARTS of the simple”. We BELIEVE with our HEARTNOT our MIND! Christian’s failure to discern between the differences between the HEART, the MIND, and the CONSCIENCE has led to more false teaching and doctrine than you or I will ever know.

Mind & Body’s POST:
Quote:
#36 - Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? {03-25-2009, 03:18 PM}
No one suggested that, Bro. Luke.
Mind & Body’s POST:
Quote:
#52 - Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? {04-04-2009, 09:15 PM}
[Luke 13:3: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.]

But what is Biblical repentance, anyway? I haven't gotten a definitive answer.
In reading you’re preceding Thread & Posts – You never asked a “definitive question” in regards to “Biblical repentance”, and so it is impossible to “answer” a “question” that was never asked!

We will now move on to your (M&B’s) second Thread and subsequent Post:

Mind & Body’s Thread & Posts concerning - James, Chapter 2: Is Faith all it takes?:

Mind & Body’s THREAD:
Quote:
James, Chapter 2: Is Faith all it takes? {03-25-2009, 10:52 AM}
Can Salvation by Faith Alone, a Protestant principle, be reconciled with the second chapter of James' Epistle? he claims that faith without works is dead.”
For your information – Salvation by Faith Alone” is NOT CONFINED to “a Protestant principle! {Another "remnant teaching" from your Roman Catholic past} “Salvation by Faith Alone” is a “Scriptural Principal”! Paul taught Salvation by Faith Alone” 1,400 years before God showed the Scriptural principal to Martin Luther [Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38]. There are over 10 times the number of Scriptures supporting “Salvation by Faith Alone” as there are that say “works” are involved (see the list of Scriptures – pro & con on my web site). In order to “reconcile” the Book of James; or Hebrews; or Matthew with the teachings and doctrines of the Apostle Paul a Christian must study the Bible [2Timothy 2:15] and learn to “rightly divide the word of truth”.

Spiritual discernment, understanding, and wisdom are something that CANNOT be taught or LEARNED in SCHOOL. Things (Spiritual Issues i.e. doctrine) that are spiritually “discerned” are taught by the Holy Spirit and are learned by those Christians who have “a love of the truth” [2Thessalonians 2:10] and who sincerely seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in spiritual matters [1Corinthians 2:1-16].

You said that James: "claims that faith without works is dead.” James isn’t “claiming” anything. James is writing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and as such, he makes NO "CLAIMS" – He’s stating a FACT! What students of the Holy Bible have to discern is - WHO is James WRITING to; and WHO do these verses APPLY to? One of the first basic principles in Bible study is “rightly dividing the word of truth” [2 Timothy 2:15]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” [2 Timothy 3:16] For Bible believers: ALL Scripture is “profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”. ALL Scripture is written FOR us to study, BUT ALL scripture is NOT written TO us! ALL Scripture has been written FOR US, but NOT ALL Scripture APPLIES to the Christian.

Until a Christian understands the BASIC PRINCIPALS of “rightly dividing the word of truth”, they can make very little “spiritual sense” of Scripture and will either “think” that ALL Scripture must be “HARMONIZED” or “RECONCILED”; and what needs to be done is to “RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of truth” according to the principles recorded in the Holy Bible:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The Bible is NOT written like a “Textbook”, it is written more like a “Puzzle”; and the KEYS to unlocking that “Puzzle” are - “rightly dividing the word of truth” {For instance discerning the DIFFERENCE between the JEW (Israel), the GENTILE (the world), and the CHURCH (born again sons of God)}; and “spiritual guidance” from the HOLY SPIRIT. That is WHY all of the “Schooling” and “Education” in the world CANNOT teach “spiritual things” – which are “spiritually discerned” [1Corinthians 2:1-16].

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Mind & Body’s POST:
Quote:
James, Chapter 2: Is Faith all it takes? {03-25-2009, 03:21 PM}
Calm down, potw. No-one is saying that salvation is of works; I'm just talking about the implications of James 2 on faith-alone salvation. It is more a Bible-study issue than a doctrinal issue.”
Your last Post gives rise to many questions (about you - why are today's Christians sooo "touchy" and ""sensitive"?): First, because of your inane and juvenile “response” to brother Steve Monahan's (POTW) Post #2 <> Your Thread; and second (and more importantly) because you completely “IGNOREDeverything that he said.

There are NO “implications” in James Chapter 2. James is writing to “the TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad”:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
The Book of James is NOT ADDRESSED to the church or to a Christian, and as such, although we can learn from it, doctrinally it does NOT APPLY to the church or a Christian.

There are NO “implications” in James Chapter 2, except in the minds of those people that “think” that there is a “possible contradiction” in the Holy Bible. Is that the “IMPLICATION” that you were hinting at? If it is, then POTW had every good reason to warn you that: “If you are here to push works based salvation through 1 verse in James, I think you are in the wrong place.” I will add to that warning – If you are here to “imply” that a works based salvation is “possible”, or that there is a “contradiction” in the Holy Bible “you are in the wrong place.

The vast majority of the brethren on this Forum believe that our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, shed His precious Blood, and died for our sins, and rose again the third day; and that His gift of Salvation became our possession the moment we believed IN Him (the Gospel) and received Him as our Saviour – Plus Nothing!

This “issue” is more than just a “Bible-study” issue”, as you have claimed. It is a basic doctrinal issue that is at the core and center of our faith! To relegate it to just a “Bible-study” issue”, that we can discuss the “implications” thereof, or that can be “reconciled” by human reason or thought, denigrates the very FOUNDATION of our FAITH; and turns one of the central doctrines of the Bible into a “philosophical” question, that can be discussed (with an “open mind”), as if many of us don’t hold strong Biblical convictions concerning the issue.

Over the past year (since this Forum was first created) we have had many kooks, crazies, and crackpots join the Forum, and although ALL of them have had a different “Hobby Horse” that they want us to ride, they ALL have ONE THING IN COMMON – and that is, they ALL QUESTION the Holy words of God and try to cast doubt on them. “Yea, hath God said”?

Your question: Do Roman Catholics Go To Hell? Is a non sequitur, and as such, there was NO “profit” or “edification” [Romans 14:19; 1Corinthians 10:23; 1Thessalonians 5:11] in answering it, since it was illogical.

Your question: James, Chapter 2: Is Faith all it takes? Is NOT a non sequitur, it is the kind of question that genders strife, division, and confusion. It is obvious, from the nature of your two questions, that you have not learned to “rightly divide the word of truth” [2 Timothy 2:15], for if you knew how to “rightly divide” you wouldn’t ask questions that a even a novice student of the Bible would already know; so the question arises WHY are you here, and WHAT are your intentions?

If you are here for the fellowship and to edify and be edified, you are certainly welcome, but on the other hand, if you are here to agitate and argue, or to stir up contention and cause trouble – be advised, some of us will not stand by idly and accept comments that are not true or which gender strife.

There’s a reason why POTW and I feel a bit “uneasy” about you (a “red flag” is up); only time will tell whether our “uneasiness” was mistaken or whether you are just one more trouble-maker looking for a “platform” to spread disinformation.

Last edited by George; 04-05-2009 at 06:09 PM.
  #58  
Old 04-05-2009, 06:11 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Default Of Repentance and of Faith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind and Body View Post
Luke 13:3: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

But what is Biblical repentance, anyway? I haven't gotten a definitive answer.
Repentance in the Bible simply means to admit your'e a guilty. This is what we actually mean by a change of mind. While it is true that it is not to forsake(a long process) or to submit to God's will (for no one can repent if in God's will), nevertheless, it is a pre-requisite to receiving(believing) Jesus to be our Saviour. For no one can really believe(receive) Christ to be His Saviour without admitting he sinned. The question is can a person be saved if he is not willing to admit that he sin? In Acts 16:31 the Philipian jailor asked Paul and Silas on how to get saved. Paul and Silas simply answered the Jailor to "believed" in the Lord Jesus Christ. But what about repentance, the context in Acts 16, I believe is that it teach to us repentance hence, the jailor would almost have to kill himself(an implied sorrow). Repentance was also done by the malefactor when together with our Lord during the crucifixion.For an in depth study refer to Luke 23:39-43. So we see that repentance is necessary in accepting the salvation i.e. to believe Christ. I've been saved by believing Jesus as my Saviour. Jesus came to be a Saviour. He came for the purpose of saving you and me, for Jesus came "to seek and to save which was lost". Here is a Saviour Christ and we are sinners who will be needing a Saviour but only a sinner who is willing to admit that he needs a Saviour by faith will be saved.

Jude 25
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  #59  
Old 04-06-2009, 08:01 PM
Mind and Body Mind and Body is offline
 
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Holy cow, George...I'm not a Catholic. Never have been, never will be...you did well when you chastised me with Scripture. O.K. but you have no reason to be so hostile! You act downright furious and I don't understand why...
  #60  
Old 04-06-2009, 08:14 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Mind and Body, don't take it personal.
You asked a good question and I think everyone has tried to answer in their own way. The doctrine of Biblical repentance is important and I'm glad we have the opportunity to discuss it.
 

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