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Old 01-06-2009, 03:26 PM
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stephanos stephanos is offline
 
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Default Hosea 2:16-17 is Ba'al Lord?

And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. (Hosea 2:16-17 KJV)

I've been having email coorespondence with a man that thinks that we are calling JEHOVAH Ba'al every time we use the word "Lord". This is what he wrote me just today.

Quote:
The Hebrew word for "Lord" is "Ba'al", PERIOD. Every Hebrew dictionary says this. Yahuweh has no interests in owning men-He simply wants a personal relationship with us. If we want to continue down this road, we will have to deal with religious men taking "Ywhw" and replacing it with "DN", which most claim is "adon". Keep in mind that it can just as easily be "edon", and that is where the fun begins. Either way, replacing God's personal and proper name 7000 times in the text that He inspired with anything else, is blasphemous. We must agree on this. I have always known that the religions of Lord/Baal/Halal/Satan/Allah (Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman Mythology, Constantine's Christianity, Rabbinical Judaism, and Muhammad's Islam) and the religions of man (socialism, fascism, communism, and secular humanism) are remarkably similar in that they all are designed to put man in control. But by examining every use of ba'al in Scripture, I found some interesting evidence. Of the 82 occurrences of the first version of ba'al used in the Old Covenant, the Authorized Version translates the word as "man" 25 times, "owner" 14 times, "husband master, man given, adversary, babbler, and confederate " the remainder. The word means "lord," a "foreign or false god" a "citizen ruler," and a "master of dreams." So in Baal, we have man as the owner and master of a confederacy that relies upon manmade and adversarial babble.
The second version of ba'al appears 16 times and is translated "marry, husband, dominion, and wife." It's chilling in a religious context because it means "to marry, to possess, to rule over, and to own." From time immemorial, religions have existed to form a bond between clerics and kings, enabling them to possess power, to rule over others, and to own whatever they covet.

The third and fourth form of Ba'al is "the supreme male divinity of the Phoenicians/Canaanites. Baal = Lord." The singular form, Baal, appears 62 times and the plural, Baalim, is used 18 times. If you are serving the Lord, as the religions of Rabbinic Judaism, Constantinian Christianity, and Islam are wont to do, you are serving Ba'al.

Of the two words which precede Lord/Baal in the Hebrew dictionaries, baiy means "grave and ruin," and baiyr means "beast." Ba'el, which follows, means "chancellor, owner, and lord." Ba'al Bariyth and Ba'al Gad signify "lord of the covenant" in reference to the religious relationship the Philistines had established with Lord/Baal, and "Lord of Fortune," a city noted for Lord/Baal worship.

H1186 בּעל מעון

ba‛al me‛ôn

BDB Definition:

Baal-meon = "lord of the habitation"



H1187 בּעל פּעור

ba‛al pe‛ôr

BDB Definition:

Baal-peor = "lord of the gap"



H1189 בּעל צפון

ba‛al tsephôn

BDB Definition:

Baal Tsphon or Baal-zephon = "lord of the north"
So is there any truth to what he's saying? I don't believe the KJB is errant, but all I've found on this subject thus far is what http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...tter=B&artid=2 says

Quote:
The wide-spread and primitive Semitic root ("ba'al") may be most nearly rendered in English by "possess." The term "Ba'al," therefore, which is usually explained as meaning "lord," is properly "possessor" or "owner," and is so used in a great variety of applications in common Hebrew speech. Thus we read of the "ba'al" of a house, of land, of goods, of a woman (that is, as a husband). It is also generalized so far as to be a mere noun of relation. Thus a "ba'al of dreams"is a dreamer; a "ba'al of anger" is an angry man; a "ba'al of wings" is a bird; a "ba'al of edges" is two-edged; "ba'alim of a covenant" are allies; "ba'als of an oath" are conspirators. Further, a "ba'al" may be the owner of animals (Isa. i. 3; Ex. xxi. 28 et seq.), but not of men as slaves or subjects, for the phrase in Isa. xvi. 8, the "ba'alim" of the nations, implies dominion over regions rather than over people. "Ba'al" in Hebrew is therefore essentially different from "adon," which implies personal sway and control. When any divinity is called "ba'al" or "a ba'al," the designation must be understood to imply not a ruler of men, but a possessor or controller of certain things. On the other hand, the Assyrian (Babylonian) "bēl," originally the same word, implies especially lordship over men, though it is also, as in all north-Semitic languages, used as a mere noun of relation. In Arabic "ba'al," as applied to persons, is confined to the meaning of "husband."
Peace and Love,
Stephen
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:16 PM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Brother, he's on a different planet of thinking because his head is in the Hebrew instead of the English. Are you still trying to reason with him?

Baal means lord, yes, but not LORD. Baal is a lord, but Jehovah is the LORD of lords.

Judges 2:13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.


Easton’s Bible Dictionary

Baal

lord. (1.) The name appropriated to the principal male god of the Phoenicians. It is found in several places in the plural BAALIM (Judg. 2:11; 10:10; 1 Kings 18:18; Jer. 2:23; Hos. 2:17). Baal is identified with Molech (Jer. 19:5). It was known to the Israelites as Baal-peor (Num. 25:3; Deut. 4:3), was worshipped till the time of Samuel (1 Sam 7:4), and was afterwards the religion of the ten tribes in the time of Ahab (1 Kings 16:31-33; 18:19, 22). It prevailed also for a time in the kingdom of Judah (2 Kings 8:27; comp. 11:18; 16:3; 2 Chr. 28:2), till finally put an end to by the severe discipline of the Captivity (Zeph. 1:4-6). The priests of Baal were in great numbers (1 Kings 18:19), and of various classes (2 Kings 10:19). Their mode of offering sacrifices is described in 1 Kings 18:25-29. The sun-god, under the general title of Baal, or "lord," was the chief object of worship of the Canaanites. Each locality had its special Baal, and the various local Baals were summed up under the name of Baalim, or "lords." Each Baal had a wife, who was a colourless reflection of himself.
(2.) A Benjamite, son of Jehiel, the progenitor of the Gibeonites (1 Chr. 8:30; 9:36).
(3.) The name of a place inhabited by the Simeonites, the same probably as Baal-ath-beer (1 Chr. 4:33; Josh. 19:8).
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:57 PM
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I am not going to spend to much time with this guy. But I wanted to clear up this one point with him. The main reason I'm coming against him is out of fear for those he may speak with who don't have absolute faith in God's Word. This viper could do a lot of damage and I feel it is important to consider him a principality of evil and to rebuke him with the truth, which I haven't done yet. I did rebuke him today on his lack of Final Authority, since he told me he believes the Scriptures "were" pure at one point but have been corrupted over the centuries, yada yada yada. So I'm going to wait to see where he stands in response to my giving him the Alexandrian Cult's creed, and go from there.

Peace and Love,
Stephen
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:16 PM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanos View Post
I am not going to spend to much time with this guy. But I wanted to clear up this one point with him. The main reason I'm coming against him is out of fear for those he may speak with who don't have absolute faith in God's Word. This viper could do a lot of damage and I feel it is important to consider him a principality of evil and to rebuke him with the truth, which I haven't done yet. I did rebuke him today on his lack of Final Authority, since he told me he believes the Scriptures "were" pure at one point but have been corrupted over the centuries, yada yada yada. So I'm going to wait to see where he stands in response to my giving him the Alexandrian Cult's creed, and go from there.

Peace and Love,
Stephen
Sounds like a cunning plan. Sock it to him! May God, somehow, be glorified through it.
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:24 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
 
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Hi Stephen,

This whole thing is simply outside of logic. I discussed it a smidgen here.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messia...c/message/1373
lord, adon, baal


Updating the Glen Patten article URL gives:

http://beth-abraham.org/baal.html
The "Baal Gad" Scam by Glen Penton

I didn't write much about this myself since Glen Penton's article covered all the basics.

Shalom,
Steven
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian View Post
Sounds like a cunning plan. Sock it to him! May God, somehow, be glorified through it.
I get the feeling you think I should just ignore this guy. If you truly feel that I'm wasting time then do tell me so. But you must know that this guy goes around youtube sowing seeds of doubt about the faith and God's Word, and it concerns me. I am no scholar or expert, but I do have passion and a burden for God's Church. If I can somehow buffet this guy with the truth of God's preserved Word then I think it is a worthy effort to at least try. Again, if you think I'm wasting time, please say so, and explain how I can know which battles are worth fighting so I can be a good soldier of the Lord.


For Jesus' sake,
Stephen
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:06 AM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanos View Post
I get the feeling you think I should just ignore this guy. If you truly feel that I'm wasting time then do tell me so. But you must know that this guy goes around youtube sowing seeds of doubt about the faith and God's Word, and it concerns me. I am no scholar or expert, but I do have passion and a burden for God's Church. If I can somehow buffet this guy with the truth of God's preserved Word then I think it is a worthy effort to at least try. Again, if you think I'm wasting time, please say so, and explain how I can know which battles are worth fighting so I can be a good soldier of the Lord.
You deal with him as the Lord leads you, but as Bro. Vendetta Ride mentioned in the other thread, there is scriptural instruction to reject this guy after admonishing him twice:

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:32 PM
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I've come to the point where I just ignore these "Lord's name" people. There is no reasoning with them because they are interested in holding on to some kind of "lost, forgotten, hidden" truth and their belief ends up being mere elitism.

I'd point them to John Hinton's article Who is Yahweh? and move on.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian View Post
You deal with him as the Lord leads you, but as Bro. Vendetta Ride mentioned in the other thread, there is scriptural instruction to reject this guy after admonishing him twice:

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
It's done. I rebuked him one last time just now and told him I have dusted my shoes of his unbelief and heretical venom. Lord willing he'll come around someday and recieve Jesus as his savior, and believe the KJB to be God's Word.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:45 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
 
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Hi Folks,

Please understand, I am not disagreeing with you, however because of my background (fascinated, lured by the qodesh name concepts for some years) I would like to share.

1 Corinthians 9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you:
but ye are washed,
but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus,
and by the Spirit of our God.


Let us be very slow to give up on those hard of hearing, and deceived and spiritually depressed. Being ready to share with them once again, instant in season, when there is a spark of hunger and honesty.

Shalom,
Steven
 

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