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Old 07-22-2009, 10:44 AM
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PaulB PaulB is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Northwest of England
Posts: 158
Default Greenbear

Oohhhhhhhhh Greenbear what are you trying to do to me!!!!!!!!

I am not sure whether we will ever see eye to eye on this issue and I’m afraid that if we ever do come to an agreement that I will be inviting you to one of my many weddings to come!

You agree with me that Jesus’ words on the topic are the final authority and then you go on to say “yet” and then go back to your original argument! Those don’t sound like final words of authority to me!

Then you go on to say that God has two wives (Now this I think is a gross error!) God has one wife, which is spiritual Israel Romans 11 makes that very clear. We are simply grafted into the same olive tree as they belong to which is also emphasised in Ephesians 2:12;

“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:”

This does not even hint at the possibility of God having “two wives” the text in itself is pretty clear especially when it is seen in the light of the entire context of Romans chapter 11. So as you can see I do not buy that idea in any way or fashion.

When you raise the issue concerning the qualifications of a bishop having only one wife it seems to me that Paul is ruling out those who have been divorced and then remarried, as such could possibly qualify any adulterer to stand in an ordained position. But a man who has more than one wife isn’t something that I see him addressing here because I don’t see it even as a pagan Roman problem, let alone a gentile church problem. (e.g. Mt.27:19 “When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.)
Pilate had one wife, Acts.24:24 Felix had one wife, Acts.18:2 Pontus had one wife, John.19:25 Cleophas had one wife and so did Annanias! So I don’t see the qualification of a bishop relating to a man with a number of wives, but rather he is ruling out those who have had previous wives.

If (like you & your husband seem to be suggesting) that there are no biblical laws against having more than one wife then what would you call me if I got married again tomorrow? If there are no biblical laws against having more than one wife then what do you think that Exodus.20:14 is? Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Concerning your question “Where in scripture does God say that Abraham, Jacob, David sinned by taking more than one wife? I have already put numerous examples to you in my previous posts. But it is like I said in one of them – where does it show that such actions were given by the command of God?

God intervened in the lives of very imperfect people and He certainly didn’t wait until the vessels that He chose for certain operations in His plan of redemption were without blemish.

Acts.17:30-31 “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”

Your questions are like someone saying, “where does it say in the Bible that there shouldn’t be an eleventh commandment” does God forbid? – then prove it!
The context of marriage is seen very clearly in the teachings of Christ and echoed by Paul and to suggest that Christ is only addressing the subject of “unlawfully putting away a wife” is to miss the entire point that He is making (i.e. the oneness of flesh until death between two people as authorised by God). If it were any other way then He would have made that clear!

Like I said before, why would there be the need to put a wife away if it is all right to have a number of them? It would be absolutely pointless, as all that the Pharisees needed to do was to shift their attention to a new one! The context is clear – they wanted to put away their wives (singular) so that they could justify an occasion for re-marriage and it is this that Jesus is addressing.

To say as you said: “We are speaking about a law prohibiting the practice. We are not speaking about what is God's perfect will in the matter.” Is to defeat the entire issue – what God says is in very essence His perfect will on the matter!

Hb.1: “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”

So what Jesus says on the matter is exactly what God says and that is that anything other than the two made one flesh is out of those boundaries.

To follow the ultimate conclusion to your line of reasoning is to suggest that Islam has upheld the right biblical traditions on this matter and that somehow the church has gone astray!

I think that it is much safer to stand on what is clear on this subject than to build on what isn’t clear and that is exactly what I have been presenting to you.

Think about it also - why has Christendom and Judaism (on a global scale) continued to uphold the one man one woman concept of biblical marriage?
Your position on this is not just in opposition to me alone but a great chunk of history.

I honestly don't think that there is much more that I can put your way on this, as your mind does seem to already be made up on the issue.
But please consider my points!

God bless

PaulB
 

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