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  #111  
Old 03-08-2009, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
yes, Geo you have done your home work. it is a great blessing to me. But Larkin's does the same but came to some great errors in his view.
Oh, I totally agree. So have many others. I disagree with you on many of your points, but we both agree there is a gap.

What is interesting is that the entire "Church age" of the New Testament is a "gap" in the Old Testament prophecies. If you have only the old Testament to go by, you do not see the 2000 year gap of the church and the age of grace. That is certainly a "gap" that even hard-core YECs must admit is there. Gaps happen!
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  #112  
Old 03-08-2009, 11:38 PM
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Oh, I totally agree. So have many others. I disagree with you on many of your points, but we both agree there is a gap.

What is interesting is that the entire "Church age" of the New Testament is a "gap" in the Old Testament prophecies. If you have only the old Testament to go by, you do not see the 2000 year gap of the church and the age of grace. That is certainly a "gap" that even hard-core YECs must admit is there. Gaps happen!
Yeah, the NT age of grace gap is something I do intend to fully understand. Give me a decade or so to read the Bible a couple dozen times, then I'll share my opinion on it. I intend to find out if there is OT prophecy on this age of grace. I'd be concerned if there wasn't.

Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #113  
Old 03-09-2009, 12:35 AM
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Yeah, the NT age of grace gap is something I do intend to fully understand. Give me a decade or so to read the Bible a couple dozen times, then I'll share my opinion on it. I intend to find out if there is OT prophecy on this age of grace. I'd be concerned if there wasn't.

Peace and Love,
Stephen
Here is a head start:

Daniel 9:24-27 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:[gap] the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: [gap] and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
  #114  
Old 03-09-2009, 12:45 AM
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Oh Boy Geo you ain't kidding if many would see the church age as a Gap they might understand Revelation a little more clearly.

I am borrowing from you, Ole and other that your sites have led me too. also from Larkin, Ruckman, Hovind, Morris, Pink and others.

you had some links to a couple of Dr's in Physics which has proven invaluable to me and my thesis. if i didn't have a different conviction of the Gap I would most likely align myself with your view.
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:58 AM
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Oh Boy Geo you ain't kidding if many would see the church age as a Gap they might understand Revelation a little more clearly.

I am borrowing from you, Ole and other that your sites have led me too. also from Larkin, Ruckman, Hovind, Morris, Pink and others.

you had some links to a couple of Dr's in Physics which has proven invaluable to me and my thesis. if i didn't have a different conviction of the Gap I would most likely align myself with your view.
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  #116  
Old 03-09-2009, 02:03 AM
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Also if they knew that the Gap goes back before the Birth of Christ in Hebrew writings and lore. And the fact that the first to teach creationism as the young earth creationist do was Oriegin of Alexandria and Augustine of Hippo, Alexandrian scholars and author of some of the early Alexandrian texts used to pervert the word of God into hundreds of perverted English versions. they might just abandon that teaching all together
  #117  
Old 03-09-2009, 03:43 AM
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Also if they knew that the Gap goes back before the Birth of Christ in Hebrew writings and lore. And the fact that the first to teach creationism as the young earth creationist do was Oriegin of Alexandria and Augustine of Hippo, Alexandrian scholars and author of some of the early Alexandrian texts used to pervert the word of God into hundreds of perverted English versions. they might just abandon that teaching all together
I thought Origin thought the Old Testament was unreliable and not literal?

Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #118  
Old 03-09-2009, 04:22 AM
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Also if they knew that the Gap goes back before the Birth of Christ in Hebrew writings and lore. And the fact that the first to teach creationism as the young earth creationist do was Oriegin [sic] of Alexandria and Augustine of Hippo, Alexandrian scholars and author of some of the early Alexandrian texts used to pervert the word of God into hundreds of perverted English versions. they might just abandon that teaching all together
If memory serves, Origen of Alexandria also took the passage about, if your right hand offends you, to cut it off...well, he did cut something off, but it was not his hand. (and I will stop right there).
  #119  
Old 03-09-2009, 05:11 AM
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Stephan quote:
I thought Origin thought the Old Testament was unreliable and not literal?


It is hard to tell what Origen believed because most of his writing were lost. but from the fragments available he held varying opinions on various theologies throughout his life. but most of what he taught on creationism was fairly well preserved through the teachings and writings of Augustine who furthered his view on creationism.

When I started out to study out the Gap and no Gap four years ago I never thought I would be reading and studying history of the early church fathers, Physics, Mathematics, geology, cosmology, and a plethora of evolutionary creationist view, Day/Age view, Howard Morris, James Morris and John Morris creation view, Kent Hovind view, that of Geologist and Ole Madsen. I have so much to read from the 1800's alone to get through what the basis is of what many believed before the 1800's.

I have read Clarance Larkin, A w Pink, Setterfield (a physicist); I have read so much already about water, time, space, life sciences and Math to make your head spin.

And I still feed on Gods word daily, feed the Flock entrusted to me, and take care of my family, and to post and answers to posts on this site as well.
  #120  
Old 03-09-2009, 05:26 AM
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Hi Chette, I'm back.

I don't believe brothers in Christ should argue or debate, so that is not why I keep coming back to this thread. I sincerely believe the Gap Theory is an error.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It is very difficult for a Gap theorist to get around this very simple and straightforward verse of scripture. And this was what God wrote on the Ten Commandments with his very finger! This verse says heaven (Gen 1:1) was included in the six day creation, and all that in them is. So this would include Satan and the angels.

You cannot add any days between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 because then the creation account would be longer than six days. In fact, according to most Gap theorists, the gap could have been thousands, millions, or even billions of years.

The Gap Theory was invented because the Church allowed science to intimidate it. All these falsely "so called" scientists were telling everybody the world and all life evolved over billions of years. So some in the Church tried to reconcile the Bible with science. We should never do that. The Bible is true no matter what science claims. And sooner or later true science (which exists) will come around and agree with the Bible. That has happened many times. Today, even evolutionists are admitting there is much evidence for a young earth. They can't deny it, there is too much real evidence.

Now, when you go around telling everybody there was a great gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, you are in effect calling God a liar. That may sound harsh, but what else could you call it? So, think about that.

The Gap Theory says there was death before Adam. But the Bible says sin entered the world by Adam. And death by this sin.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


OK, the Bible says sin entered the world by a man, not an angel. Vs. 14 says death reigned from Adam to Moses, but if the Gap Theory is correct, then death reigned well before Adam was created until Moses.

The Bible says Adam was the first man.

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


The Gap Theory claims there were some sort of hybrid angelic men on the earth. They certainly had to be mortal men if God destroyed them by making the earth "without form and void" as your theory demands. Destroying the world would have no effect on angels or Satan. And we know Satan is still around today and will be to the end. So, destroying the earth had no effect on him or the other angels.

So, if there were mortal men on the earth between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, then 1 Cor 15:45 is false.

This is just the beginning, I could go on and on. Don't you see how contrary to the scriptures this theory is?

Six day creationists do not have to twist the scriptures, it is simple and staightforward. It doesn't contradict many other verses in the Bible the way the Gap theory does.

I would think seriously think about this theory. I wouldn't listen to what other men say, listen to what the scriptures say.
I have been on the fence about this issue, leaning more towards the Gap theory......until Geologist mentioned Cain being the offspring of the Serpent! That, and the teaching that Noah's flood did not leave even one fossil has turned me the other direction.

Winman, I agree with your points in this post and thank you for making them.

Shalom,

Tandi
 

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