Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:27 AM
jbh28 jbh28 is offline
 
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Default NKJV and the TR

I have read that the NKJV ignores the TR over 1200 times. I have however never seen a passage where the NKJV used a reading other than the TR reading. I was wondering if anybody could give me some examples of passages where the NKJV chose a reading that is different from the TR reading.

I'm not talking about just translational differences between the KJV and the NKJV because there are many of them. I'm just referring to the differences in the Greek text.

Thanks!
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
I have read that the NKJV ignores the TR over 1200 times.
Perhaps one thing would help. Could you source the stat that you give? That may help in determining where the answer lies.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:43 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
 
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Hi Folks,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbh28
I have however never seen a passage where the NKJV used a reading other than the TR reading. I was wondering if anybody could give me some examples of passages where the NKJV chose a reading that is different from the TR reading.
On this verse the textual difference is a little mark where the NKJV follows the W-H text creating an error.

Hebrews 3:16
King James Bible
For some, when they had heard, did provoke:
howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.


NKJV
For who, having heard, rebelled?
Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?

This variance from the Received Text has been confirmed. Generally I have found NKJV weaknesses to be in translation (also the footnotes that draw attention to abject corruptions in the alexandrian text). Not in varying from the TR. to the alexandrian text.

Shalom,
Steven
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:53 PM
jbh28 jbh28 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Tim View Post
Perhaps one thing would help. Could you source the stat that you give? That may help in determining where the answer lies.
http://www.momof9splace.com/nkjv.html

Hey Brother Tim. Here is one place. I'm still trying to find others that I have seen, but this is basically how it is worded.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:54 PM
jbh28 jbh28 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Avery View Post
Hi Folks,

On this verse the textual difference is a little mark where the NKJV follows the W-H text creating an error.

Hebrews 3:16
King James Bible
For some, when they had heard, did provoke:
howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.


NKJV
For who, having heard, rebelled?
Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?

This variance from the Received Text has been confirmed. Generally I have found NKJV weaknesses to be in translation (also the footnotes that draw attention to abject corruptions in the alexandrian text). Not in varying from the TR. to the alexandrian text.

Shalom,
Steven
Thanks Steven, I'll take a look at this one.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:18 PM
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JBH, the site that you linked lists a number of places where the NKJV has a different and not synonymous translation from the KJB. My first response would be that the persons who use the phrase "ignores the TR" especially with large numbers in reality are counting translational differences as such. Now I would have to speculate that "ignoring" means here that the proper word was not used in the translation. I know that is what you said at the beginning should not be the measure, but I expect that is what most differences boil down to.

I cannot compare the NKJV with the TR for several reasons. First, I am English-literate only, not by choice but by training. (I would like to learn Spanish, but my memory won't cooperate.) Secondly, I am content by comparing the NKJV with the KJB and seeing the errors in the NKJV, I find no need to dig deeper. Lastly and most importantly, NO ONE can make the comparison because there is no singular Greek TR that is universally accepted as the actual complete and perfect TR.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:54 PM
jbh28 jbh28 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Tim View Post
JBH, the site that you linked lists a number of places where the NKJV has a different and not synonymous translation from the KJB. My first response would be that the persons who use the phrase "ignores the TR" especially with large numbers in reality are counting translational differences as such. Now I would have to speculate that "ignoring" means here that the proper word was not used in the translation. I know that is what you said at the beginning should not be the measure, but I expect that is what most differences boil down to.

I cannot compare the NKJV with the TR for several reasons. First, I am English-literate only, not by choice but by training. (I would like to learn Spanish, but my memory won't cooperate.) Secondly, I am content by comparing the NKJV with the KJB and seeing the errors in the NKJV, I find no need to dig deeper. Lastly and most importantly, NO ONE can make the comparison because there is no singular Greek TR that is universally accepted as the actual complete and perfect TR.
I'm with you there Tim. I don't know Greek either. I had discussions with people where they claim that the NKJV wasn't from the TR or used a reading other than a TR reading many times. They usually quoted sites like these as reference to that.

Thanks Tim.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:15 PM
jbh28 jbh28 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbh28 View Post
Thanks Steven, I'll take a look at this one.
Steven, I will admit, I don't know much about Greek. I looked and I didn't see any difference even with the CT and the TR here. What was the textual difference in this passage?

Hebrews 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. KJV

Hebrews 3:16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? NKJV

The biggest difference i see in here are (some/who) and (provoke/rebelled). The NKJV as well as the NASB has who, while the KJV has some. Looks like it is the same Greek word. I wasn't so sure about provoke vs rebelled. The NASB reading is like the KJV with "provoke." The NKJV and the ESV both have rebelled. Is this a different way of translating the term, or is a different Greek word being used here.

Once again, thanks for you help.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:32 PM
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The meaning of Hebrews 3:16 in the NKJV is the complete opposite than in the KJB.

The NKJ has the first part of the verse as a queston, the KJ has it as a declaritive. The NKJ says they all rebelled, The King James says not all.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:06 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
 
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Hi Folks,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
The meaning of Hebrews 3:16 in the NKJV is the complete opposite than in the KJB. The NKJ has the first part of the verse as a queston, the KJ has it as a declaritive. The NKJ says they all rebelled, The King James says not all.
Right. And that difference is very substantial, since on top of Joshua and Caleb, there were young folks and woman and Levites (if I recall) who cannot be said to have rebelled. Also it is very significant in understanding the heart of God in the book of Hebrews.

The textual difference is in the accent marks and leads to the two opposite meanings. The difference will not show up on a letter-only text.

Shalom,
Steven
 

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