Originally Posted by Revangelist

The reason I believe the "gift of the Holy Ghost" with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is for today has to do with the following verses:

I'm just curious.... which foreign language do you speak miraculously without having been taught that foreign language?

[atlas]

Beth,

I'm just curious.... which foreign language do you speak miraculously without having been taught that foreign language?

That is such a good question my friend. Just think they do not have to learn a foreign language like the Baptist because they have " the gift. "




Atlas

[George]

Originally Posted by Revangelist

Hey George, it is a pleasure to discuss with you. One of my best friends is like you in that regard. Iron sharpens iron. There's always built-in irritations with any disagreement, however, when incendiary remarks are eliminated, that makes for a more challenging discussion.

That said,

I believe the question you are asking me has to do with context of who is being addressed and who can apply a particular teaching today (sorry for the sloppy paraphrase).

The reason I believe the "gift of the Holy Ghost" with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is for today has to do with the following verses:

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


And again, thank you for being civil. On another thread, I was told I don't know Jesus because I didn't believe in the Calvinistic doctrine of pre-destination. That's when it's time to end the discussion.

Please check my posts to Connie on her question: "The Gifts of the Holy Spirit for today?"

To answer your 3 points - your quote: The reason I believe the "gift of the Holy Ghost" with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is for today has to do with the following verses:

#1. {Acts 2:39} The "tongues" that were spoken were languages known by the Jews and Proselyte Jews that were spread throughout the Roman Empire - not an "unknown" tongue. The "promise" is the "gift" of the Holy Spirit (not the tongues) of which the "tongues" were a "sign" to the Jews of the veracity of the "gift".

#2. {Acts 10:45} The purpose of the "tongues" here (spoken by Gentiles) was to convince the Jews (Peter & his Jewish brethren) that "on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." Since "the Jews require a sign" [1Corinthians 1:22] and since "tongues are for a sign" [1Corinthians 14:22], the fact that the Gentiles also spoke in tongues convinced Peter and his fellow Jews that the Gentiles had also received the "gift" of the Holy Ghost.

#3.{Galatians 3:7-9} The fact that we have "faith" in common with Abraham doesn't mean Christians have inherited all of the Jewish covenants having to do with the land; the Kingdom; or the many promises that God made to the nation of Israel.

We are "the children of Abraham" through his seed - the Lord Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

I fail to see where Galatians has any bearing or relation to "tongues", unless the claim is made that all of the promises to Abraham and to his seeds are ours - which Galatians 3:16 dispels at once, since the promise was to Christ and through Christ only, NOT to the nation of Israel.

When the scriptures proclaim: "In thee shall all nations be blessed."; that is a reference again to the Lord Jesus Christ and His sacrificial death and shed blood that made it possible for those of us who aren't Jews to become partakers of the same blessing [Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:]

Beth and Atlas, Here's your answer....

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Remember, in Acts 2, when they sopke in tongues the first time, they were in a prayer meeting. Acts 2:5 has them exited the upper room, and outside.

Here is another answer...

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

This is talking about praying in tongues, in which the particular language isn't specified.

Disclaimer: This in no wise validates everyone who speaks in tongues. There are many sources of tongues-speaking. I've shown Biblical tongues as:

1. Praying in the Spirit (1st Corinthians 14:2)
2. Speaking in an unlearned human lnaguage (Acts 2:8)
3. Tongues and interpretation in a church service. (1st Corinthians 14:5)

Some are suggesting tongues has been takin away. Another Scriptural reason I don't believe any of the gifts of the Spirit are removed but are still for today:

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Originally Posted by Revangelist

Beth and Atlas, Here's your answer....

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Remember, in Acts 2, when they sopke in tongues the first time, they were in a prayer meeting. Acts 2:5 has them exited the upper room, and outside.

Here is another answer...

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

This is talking about praying in tongues, in which the particular language isn't specified.

Disclaimer: This in no wise validates everyone who speaks in tongues. There are many sources of tongues-speaking. I've shown Biblical tongues as:

1. Praying in the Spirit (1st Corinthians 14:2)
2. Speaking in an unlearned human lnaguage (Acts 2:8)
3. Tongues and interpretation in a church service. (1st Corinthians 14:5)

Are you saying that when you speak in tongues you are simply repeating babblings? this is easy to do. What is miraculous, is to speak in a known foreign language without having been taught that foreign language, which was the case on the day of Pentecost.

Originally Posted by Way of Life Encyclopedia

ERROR # 4: TONGUES IS A HEAVENLY PRAYER LANGUAGE.

When it is noted by outsiders that the modern tongues spoken commonly in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles is not a known earthly language, it is replied that they are speaking in a heavenly prayer language.

WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES:

The tongues spoken in the early churches were real earthly languages (Act 2:6-10). According to 1Cor 14:2, tongues speaking was the giving forth of mysteries, which refers to revelation. The term "mysteries" in the N.T. refers to things that were hidden in O.T. times but are now brought to light (Rom 16:25-26; 1Cor 2:7, 1 Cor 2:10; Eph 3:3-5; Col 1:26). This is what we see on the day of Pentecost. Those that heard the disciples speak in tongues on that day said, "we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God" (Act 2:11). Biblical tongues were languages, not some sort of unintelligible mutters.

Originally Posted by Revangelist

Some are suggesting tongues has been takin away. Another Scriptural reason I don't believe any of the gifts of the Spirit are removed but are still for today:

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Here's some commentary on Rom 11:29.

Originally Posted by John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Ro 11:29

For the gifts and calling of God,… By "gifts" are meant, not the gifts of nature and providence, as life, health, strength, riches, and honour, which God sometimes gives, and repents of, and takes away; as he repented that he had made man upon earth, and Saul king of Israel; which must be understood by an "anthropopathy", after the manner of men, and that not of a change of the counsel of his mind, but of the course of his providence: nor do gifts here design external gifts of grace, or such gifts of the Spirit, which qualify men for ministerial work, for public service in the church; for these may be taken away, as the "parable" of the "talents" shows, Mat 25:29; see 1Cor 13:8; but the special and spiritual gifts of God's free grace, which relate to the spiritual and eternal welfare of the souls of men, even that, grace which was given to God's elect in Christ before the world was, and all those spiritual blessings wherewith they were then blessed in him:

these are without repentance; that is, they are immutable and unalterable; God never revokes them, or calls them in again, or takes them away from the persons to whom he has made such a previous donation: the reasons are, because that his love from whence they spring is always the same; it admits of no distinction, nor of any degrees, nor of any alteration; and electing grace, according to which these gifts are bestowed, stands sure and immovable; not upon the foot of works, but of the sovereign will of God, and always has its sure and certain effect; and the covenant of grace, in which they are secured, remains firm and inviolable; and indeed, these gifts are no other than the promises of it, which are all yea and amen in Christ, and the blessings of it, which are the sure mercies of David. Whatever God purposes, or promises to give, or really does give to his people, whether into the hands of Christ for them, or into their own, he never repents of or reverses.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.



Beth, you were correct about the "miraculousness" of speaking in a language you haven't learned to someone who understands it. That does go on, even today (albeit by testimony since I wasn't present to witness it). But the other part you refer to as babblings, is where Paul says some unknown tongues done in prayer are speaking directly to God and his understanding is unfruitful. So, I guess if someone (besides God) is listening in, it will sound like babblings.

Revangelist, I agree. If someone disagrees, that is understandable. What I would like to point out is someone who believes "tongues isn't for today" will find it very difficult, if not impossible, to "convert" a Pentecostal from their position. Speaking for myself, and probably many other Pentecostals: I've received something special in the way of speaking in tongues. I spend time everyday in prayer. Some of that time, I pray in an unknown tongue and I'm speaking to God and not to anyone else. I don't make a habit of doing this in front of other people. As a matter of fact, I avoid it. These are precious times in prayer.

You can disagree with that all you like to. But, you won't be able to change my mind, any more than you can talk me out of my marriage. It is something I've experienced, and checked-out with the Scriptures and found them valid. We all have experiences in life. We all have feelings. For me personally, I try not to operate by feelings, and I don't make Biblical decisions based on experiences. But my experience does add-up Biblically. Also, as for quoting a commentary, I have to admit I don't use or read commentaries very much. When they are quoted on this forum, I don't read them at all. No offense.

Amen, Revangelist. Ditto with me.