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  #41  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:35 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Originally Posted by geologist View Post
James 3:6-10 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

1 Timothy 6:4-5 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

And I shall.

Before you quote scripture as an example of "who" the apostle meant "withdraw yourself" from take the scripture in light of its context.
Backup a verse
1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
This is a warning to the young Timothy about those who change the truth to ease or appease themselves or others, twist scripture to make it fit with what they themselves believe and not the "truth" and we can find the truth in
"the words of our Lord Jesus Christ"
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The irony of your last post is that the scripture you cited refers to what you are doing yourself. Brother George, through the SCRIPTURES has admonished a belief contrary to what you were writing or believing, George simply followed BIBLICAL truth, as this is a BIBLE BELIEVING forum.

I have to post this as calling a dear Brother of mine destitute of the truth and corrupt and perverse minded really got my goat! I can testify of his loving kindness and his Wife Rene's first hand.

I am most certainly sorry that your dog died, I had a german shepard for 13 years and was heartbroken at getting her put down, but by know means did I ever imagine that she had a soul. I would think long and hard and prayerfully about your quoted post, the scripture speaks for itself and you have in your own post admonished yourself without knowing it.

lets finish up by going to the close of 1st Timothy 6

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

The end of this Chapter rings true of the topic raised in these posts and as far as I read George has "kept that which is committed to thy trust"
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  #42  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by geologist View Post
James 3:6-10 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

1 Timothy 6:4-5 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

And I shall.
Brother Brandon...in my opinion, Brother George has "rightly divided the word of truth" in addressing Geologist. Geologist has not.

Furthermore, with the above post he has used the Holy Scripture to justify his own error and has falsely accused a brother in Christ. He started his post by quoting Brother George and then addressed him with Scripture that justifies and supports his sin and total disregard for the word of God.

By doing so, he is accusing Brother George of having the tongue of fire and iniquity, possessing an unruly and evil tongue, and one that is full of deadly poison. He has accussed him of blessing God, even the Father; and cursing men. In addition he has accused Brother George as being proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, and causing envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings. He has falsely accused Brother George of perverse disputings and a corrupt mind. And worst of all...destitute of the truth.

I recommend that from such we withdraw ourselves.
  #43  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:44 AM
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It is no mistake that "peopleoftheway" and I were typing a similar concern at the same time...he in Northern Ireland and me in Texas!
  #44  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:53 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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It is no mistake that "peopleoftheway" and I were typing a similar concern at the same time...he in Northern Ireland and me in Texas!
  #45  
Old 03-21-2009, 07:13 AM
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through certain circumstances and situations God can and does speak to people about areas of their lives that He is trying to change via the Holy Ghost. I pray that all would see that whenever there is a situation like this (I have been through them too) that God is trying to speak to all involved not just to Geologist.

I pray we can all learn from from this no matter who is right or wrong. God loves to work in our lives. I have learned from much of what has been said here in this post alone.
  #46  
Old 03-21-2009, 07:14 AM
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At the risk of getting myself banned as well, I would like to say this:

I posted a Scripture earlier in this thread (Proverbs 30) without comment because I dared not enter the conversation with more words, be misunderstood, and get myself in trouble for my point of view. Plus I am a woman and it is not my place to teach or correct men. Yet just posting the Scripture led to misunderstanding and more words from George and others. Geologist requested that this conversation be dropped (Renee did as well), but George would not drop it. Geologist then quoted appropriate Scriptures about the situation, withdrawing himself from the continued fruitless argumentation. Whatever he says at this point will make the situation worse. He tried to clarify once to no avail. George railed on. Apparently we cannot even quote Scripture for thoughtful consideration without judging the intent of someone's heart (which we are forbidden to do in Scripture).

I tried to put out a fire of harsh words back and forth at another forum about a year ago. I did so by changing the subject and posting a controversial article about polygamy in the Bible that was in the news at the time. I thought maybe the conversation would gravitate to discussion of that subject and the feuding between certain individuals would cease. It worked! ......But it worked too well. The conversation about polygamy was deemed "the last straw" by the forum owner. I was misunderstood as advocating polygamy by posting the article (I certainly was not!) But I dared not contradict the forum owner. When he decided to shut down the forum altogether, many of us were upset....and I was devastated. That was my main source of fellowship. I had made friends there. Many cannot understand how real the fellowship can be on forums and blogs. Many of us are isolated and have no like-minded fellowship of any kind. It is unfortunate that we cannot work out our issues with one another without disfellowshipping. Forum banning is just like getting booted out of a congregation. The rejection is palpable. Forum people are people too! (if I can use the hot-button word "people")

Many of us learn and grow by hearing discussions back and forth on various issues. If there is no opposition, there is no growth. It is nice when discussions can be friendly, but even when they get heated, learning can take place. I am in discussions with atheists on other blogs. Their challenges keep me digging in the Scriptures and apologetics resources and KJV resources for the answers. I am learning as I earnestly contend for the faith.

I hope disputes can be resolved without banning. I hope differing points of view can be expressed here freely so that discussion and learning can take place.

I hope I am not out of line in expressing my thoughts.

Shalom,

Tandi

Last edited by Tandi; 03-21-2009 at 07:38 AM.
  #47  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tandi View Post

I hope disputes can be resolved without banning. I hope differing points of view can be expressed here freely so that discussion and learning can take place.

I hope I am not out of line in expressing my thoughts.

Shalom,

Tandi
Sure disputes can be resolved in a spirit of love, truth, forbearance, and kindness. But let me quote again:

Quote:
1 Timothy 6:4-5 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

And I shall.
This, in my opinion, is not a small matter. It's serious to accuse a brother of being being proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, and causing envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings. He has falsely accused Brother George of perverse disputings and a corrupt mind. And worst of all...destitute of the truth. Listen to those words! I'm not taking up offense for Brother George. He is not a defenseless babe in Christ.

Sister Tandi, to me it is clear that Brother Geologist is accusing a brother of being the things mentioned in 1 Timothy 6. I'm fine when people disagree. But to use the word of God in order to attack the character of another brother "personally" and falsely...stirs my inner man. As difficult as it is, I believe this type of behavior merits that we withdraw ourselves from such a one as a visible reproof and love of the truth.
  #48  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:51 PM
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Aloha sister Tandi,

I am going to try , this one more time, to reason with you because I perceive that you are sincere, but lack some spiritual understanding in this matter.

First of all, although Brandon Staggs (Diligent) is my son-in-law; in the year that I have been on the AV1611 Bible Forums I have never asked him to ban anyone - not one person. In the year that I have been here, I cannot recall ever calling for the banning of someone publicly or openly on the Forum. {Although I may have affirmed the banning of someone AFTER Brandon banned them - It's Brandon's Forum, NOT mine.}

I am not calling for Brandon to ban geologist now, nor will I (we haven't even talked about the possibility). And I certainly wouldn't call for you to get banned - you haven't done anything contrary to the rules of the Forum and you have an absolute right to your opinion, regardless of who I am, or what I may say.

Considering the state of the churches in these times of apostasy, I wouldn't want someone to get banned from the only possible source of fellowship and Bible teaching they may have. To be honest, if the AV1611 Forum were mine, I still wouldn't ban geologist, even though I believe he is gravely mistaken on this issue.

If you will carefully re-read my Posts, both to geologist and to you, I never even "hinted" that either one of you should be banned, and I didn't call for anyone else to "disregard", or "avoid" geologist. I just informed geologist that from here on out "I for one" would disregard anything he had to say and that I would avoid him.

My words:
Quote:
"After observing your utter “disregard” for the Holy words of God in this instance, you may rest assured, that I for one, will disregard anything you have to say from here on out! I learned long ago to avoid "gnat strainers" and Bible correctors."
Quote:
"I have a very simple rule (and have had since 1968) when a Christian says "NAY" TO God's Holy words - I say NAY TO THEM!"
This issue (Bible Correcting) may seem to be a small matter to you, but to me, next to God Himself, it is of paramount importance. Please notice the difference in how I have tried to intreat you and persuade you - because you haven't denied God's words; you haven't changed them; you haven't added to them; geologist has.

You were touched by geologist's loss of his pet, and in feeling sympathy for him and his situation, you have let your "feelings" interfere with your judgment (women tend to this more than men). While I too was "touched" by geologists loss, my problem was that what he said about his dog was unscriptural, i.e. false. {geologist let his "attachment" to his pet dog "cloud his judgment".}

I only made my Post after you agreed with his comments (your Posts #3 & #11,). Please take notice - my first Post #13 was made AFTER your two Posts supporting geologists unscriptural statements. Brother Tim admonished you with his Post #12:

Brother Tim's words:
Quote:
"Tandi, you have done what too many do with the Scriptures. You stopped with the part that said what you wanted. Now read the next verse:" 1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Since Brother Tim had admonished you, I saw no need to admonish you any further (I didn't even mention you by name at that juncture), but geologist was another matter. He not only had made false statements, but, because of his tragic loss, he had persuaded you to go along with his false claims - it was at that point that I could no longer "forbear". It was one thing for geologist to believe his speculations, it was quite another for him to be persuading others to his erroneous beliefs.

If you have re-read the Posts in chronological order you will see that my first Post (#13) was a "mild correction" - no name calling; no bombastic statements; no accusations; and no threats. I just simply pointed out that his personal belief about his dog was in error - that's all. If geologist had "just considered the source" and let my comment pass, none of this brouhaha would have occured. So your comment (judgment) is in grave error:

Your statement:
Quote:
"Geologist requested that this conversation be dropped (Renee did as well), but George would not drop it."
It was only AFTER geologist's Post#19, where he denied the truth of Scripture (as plainly stated), and proceeded to correct & change it; and his Post#23 with his snide and condescending attitude towards my wife (as if she were a "novice") that I came in (my Post #25) and took him to task for his blasphemous attitude towards the Holy Scriptures.

Again, if he would have just "considered the source" and just let my reproof pass, this "episode" would have ended - BUT he just had to come back and justify his denial of Scriptural truth; with a "contrived" dispensational explaination that will not "hold water". {Essentially what geologist was claiming was that - Old Testament "truth", is no longer "TRUE" - and that what he now believed, was New Testament "truth", as if there was a CONTRADICTION in the Holy Scriptures!} We do not "rightly divide the word of truth" - by DENYING parts of it, because it comes from the Old Testament! The command is to "RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of truth" - NOT DENY it; CORRECT it; and the CHANGE it!

Either ALL of the Bible is TRUE or NONE of it is! Either we accept the whole of Scripture as being TRUE or IF it is NOT - we should just forget the whole matter and just "eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die".

IF I cannot go to the Book (that I have treasured for over 50 years) with complete confidence - knowing that it is ALL TRUE, I would have given up the "exercise" long ago. And IF a fellow brother in Christ, with whom I am fellowshipping with (I cannot warn, admonish, reprove, rebuke, or correct all Christians everywhere) DENIES, CORRECTS, and CHANGES the words that are in that Book, you may rest assured that I am going to speak up and defend the Holy words of God against the offender - regardless of whomsoever he may be.

I have left churches over this issue; I have been given the "heave ho" from churches over this issue; I have lost good friends over this issue; I have been railed on by Jack Van Impe (1973) over this issue, do you think that I am going to let geologist's blasphemy stand, without my challenging him? If you do - you don't know me.

This is not a matter of "picking sides" in a dispute, this is a matter of righteous judgment - like I have said. Your statement: ""Geologist requested that this conversation be dropped (Renee did as well), but George would not drop it." is in error. Had geologist chosen, at anytime during this dispute, to drop it, I would have been more than happy to oblige. But it was geologist that kept coming back (justifying himself and what he said) - not me. I just kept replying to his false claims each time he made them.

This Post is not meant to castigate you or demean you, but I have a responsibilty to "earnestly contend for the faith"; and if in doing so, someone's "feelings get hurt" - so be it. My wife and I have trained up 7 children in our life together, and we got real used to someone's "feelings getting hurt", but that never deterred us from trying to do the right thing (according to the Bible), and it is not going to deter me now from following God's words (according to the Holy Scriptures - and not according to my feelings or personal opinions).

I determined in my heart long ago (1968) that I will not put up with any Christian (within my sphere of influence) adding, subtracting, or changing the words of God in my Bible. If I will not support those things, what am I to do when a Christian (on this Forum) not only changes and adds to the Holy words of God, but also DENIES the Truth stated therein?

I am appealing to you to think about what has transpired here. Either the Bible is ALL TRUE and can be unconditionally trusted and relied on, or it has contradictions. IF it has contradictions, then it's not worth the paper that its written on. On the other hand - if it as ALL TRUE, then Christians have no business DENYING ("NAY") parts of it (because it comes from the Old Testament), just because they may not understand it, or (worse yet) because they DISAGREE with what it says!

We Christians have been given a CHOICE - we can either believe God's Holy words {preserved for us - inspired, Holy, perfect, and without error in the King James Bible} or we can believe men and their private interpretations; personal opinions; and individual beliefs. Over forty years ago I chose to believe God's word, I don't intend to CHANGE now. I am as commited to the "Truth" of God's word now (even more so), than I was back in 1968 when I found out the truth about the King James Bible.

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Last edited by George; 03-21-2009 at 01:21 PM.
  #49  
Old 03-21-2009, 02:53 PM
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Hello Brother George,

I sympathize also with your loss......and I think it is impacting your remarks. You were greatly offended that Geologist felt the same way about losing his dog as you did about losing your son.

Quote:
The very idea that you would equate your dog with a person is abhorrent to me! The very idea that you felt about your dog, the way we felt about our son is so foreign to me, as to generate within me feelings of revulsion!
As a result, I think you are making way too much of his remarks. I do not believe he made a snide remark to your wife or insulted her....and besides he apologized for the misunderstanding there. I do not believe he corrected the Scriptures. He is a King James Bible believer just like everyone here! He was merely making a statement about the power of love that is in complete harmony with the Scriptures.

How about this passage:

Rom 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?


Rom 8:36
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Rom 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.


Rom 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,


Rom 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Someone could say that the Apostle Paul is contradicting Solomon to say, in effect, “love is stronger than death.”

There is plenty of paradox in the Bible. We all must live with the tension of paradox and mystery. None of us are so smart that we have all the answers and perfect understanding. We all see through a glass darkly. [Please note: the word “paradox” does not equal “contradiction”]

You have brought up so many issues in your litany of complaints that I cannot begin to address them all. And it would be fruitless, because you would come back with a zinger of a defense. You are very good at that....and I have commended you in the past for it.

Geologist was asking for mercy...and so am I....can’t we just let this conversation end and move on?

No, you did not call for anyone to be banned. You were not the only one I was addressing in the post. It was Forrest who suggested banning, and People of the Way who seemed to be in agreement.

Brother Tim admonished me for quoting only part of a portion of Scripture to make my point earlier in this thread. Yet authors of the NT text took OT Scriptures out of their immediate context to make relevant points. The ox treading the corn comes to mind.

I do not believe that the Scriptures Geologist quoted to make his last point about withdrawing from the conflict were meant to denigrate you in each and every word. If he had quoted PORTIONS of those Scriptures, he probably would have been accused of taking AWAY from the word of God!

The part about “strifes of words” “railings” and withdrawing from disputes is applicable to this situation however (in my opinion). You did refer to his “humanist drivel” and other insulting remarks and accusations.

So now that I have said all of this, I expect that my words will be analyzed, dissected for error and heresy, and I will pay a penalty for speaking my mind.

Oh well. I tried to make peace.

Shalom,

Tandi
  #50  
Old 03-21-2009, 03:54 PM
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Aloha sister Tandi,

You said: "I tried to make peace." As far as this matter is concerned, or any more comments about this matter coming from me, and directed at you - you shall have "peace".

I have stated my position as clearly as I possibly could. I am willing to "let sleeping dogs lie" - no pun intended.
 

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