Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 04-01-2009, 01:22 AM
Buck's Avatar
Buck Buck is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Twin Lake, Michigan
Posts: 39
Default

Repentance
When a person repents, he changes his mind about something and proceeds in a different direction. God commands all sinners to repent of their sins and turn to Him for salvation (Acts 17:30-31; Luk. 13:3). A person who truly repents is a person who will (1) Become saddened about their sins (II Cor. 7:9-10; Psa. 51), (2) forsake their sins (Mt. 3:8; Acts 26:20), and (3) submit themselves to the will of God (Acts 9:6). Anything less is something less than Biblical repentance.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #42  
Old 04-01-2009, 09:30 AM
CKG CKG is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Warner Robins, Georgia
Posts: 197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck View Post
Repentance
When a person repents, he changes his mind about something and proceeds in a different direction. God commands all sinners to repent of their sins and turn to Him for salvation (Acts 17:30-31; Luk. 13:3). A person who truly repents is a person who will (1) Become saddened about their sins (II Cor. 7:9-10; Psa. 51), (2) forsake their sins (Mt. 3:8; Acts 26:20), and (3) submit themselves to the will of God (Acts 9:6). Anything less is something less than Biblical repentance.
The phrase "repent of sins" can be confusing leading many to believe that they must somehow put away their sins as a condition for salvation. Paul tells us what Biblical repentance as it concerns salvation is in Acts 20:21.
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21)

Paul lays out the gospel for us in 1 Corinthians 15.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Salvation is a gift from God.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:7-9)
By faith we receive this gift by believing the gospel.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise Ephesians 1:13
Judas was saddened over his actions, but he never repented. The bottom line in salvation is not how you feel, but what do you believe.
  #43  
Old 04-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

I agree with CKG.

The word repent does not mean turn from sins, else God is a sinner.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Psalms 106:45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

There are many verses besides these that say God repented. As God cannot sin, then surely repent is not defined as turning from sin. It means to change one's mind, to think differently, to decide differently.

In Acts 17, Paul is telling the Athenians to turn from their false gods to the true God and trust on Jesus Christ. Now, it is a sin to worship false gods, so in this sense he is telling them to turn from sin. But the real message was to change their thinking.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

In Luke it is the same. These persons believed themselves righteous because God was good to them, and believed others were great sinners who God punished.

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

So, see here how Jesus addresses their thoughts, not actions. He is telling them that they must realize that they too are sinners in danger of perishing. They should see their sin.

Here is a very example.

Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The Pharisee needed to change his opinion of himself. He needed to realize he was a sinner. He needed to quit trusting in his own righteousness and trust in Jesus. This is what repent means.

And notice the publican. He did not promise to quit sinning, though it is obvious he was very ashamed of himself. But he came to Christ and depended on him and was forgiven.

Jesus does not save us because we promise to quit sinning. Any honest Christian will tell you that they still have problems with sin after receiving Christ. I know I have.

Jesus came to save the UNGODLY, not the godly.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

And when Jesus healed the sick, it was a picture of salvation. Imagine telling a blind man, "when you start seeing, I will forgive you", or telling a cripple, "when you start walking, I will forgive you". No, when the sick came to Jesus, many truly believed they were horrible sinners and this is why they were afflicted, this was the teaching of the day. In most cases you see them crying out for mercy.

Matt 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us. 28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. 29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.


Just as these blind men could not see until AFTER Jesus healed them, we cannot truly do good until AFTER Jesus saves us.

Last edited by Winman; 04-01-2009 at 03:06 PM.
  #44  
Old 04-01-2009, 09:08 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

well said CKG and Winman
  #45  
Old 04-02-2009, 04:50 PM
Buck's Avatar
Buck Buck is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Twin Lake, Michigan
Posts: 39
Default

Are you trying to say that repenting of your sins, is not needed to proceed to heaven ??
You have lost me in your conversation.
  #46  
Old 04-02-2009, 05:24 PM
Bro. Parrish
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Brother Buck,
I think you were right in your previous post, when you said repentance in essence is a change of mind. The problem can start when we start adding things to that, as some type of "evidence" for salvation.

I think what the others are saying is that we have to be careful because some tend to view repentance differently than others, and some see it as a "work" needed for salvation.

Here is a pretty good overview of the various doctrines on repentance down through the ages, (be advised I do not consider all of these as Biblical) you might want to review the entire article, these are just a few points and I'm just trying to show how various denominations can put a spin on these things like repentance and baptism... notice carefully the concept under "turning away from sin."

Repentance (Metanoia) Defined as a Change of Mind

"In contrast to the Church's definition of metanoia as involving contrition, confession, and the performance of acts of penance, Calvin and Luther concluded that it retained its classical sense of "a change of mind." Salvific repentance according to Calvin and Luther was a change of mind whereby one recognized his own sinfulness and need of forgiveness and then turned in faith to God to provide that forgiveness in Christ. In essence, then, Luther and Calvin viewed salvific repentance as an essential part of saving faith."

Turning Away from Sin

"Those holding to this view consider salvific repentance to be the actual turning away from one's sins and not merely a willingness or intention to do so. They would tell an alcoholic, for example, that in order to become a Christian he would first have to stop getting drunk."

"Which of the views stated is the one correct view of salvific repentance? Future articles in this series will demonstrate that the change-of-mind-secure-salvation view is the biblical one.

If a person must give up something or even be willing to do so to obtain salvation, then it is not really a free gift. If one must live an obedient life to keep salvation, then it is conditioned upon faith plus works, and grace is nullified. Other views of salvific repentance fail to grasp the gravity of our plight as sinners in the hands of a holy God.

Nothing which we can do to try and clean up our lives will impress God. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can atone for our sins. And, the only way to appropriate Jesus' blood is by faith alone in Christ alone. The only thing we need to give up is a self-righteous attitude. We must cease viewing ourselves as good enough to merit salvation and instead place all of our trust on what Jesus Christ did on the cross for us as our Substitute."


Full article here:
The Doctrine of Repentance in Church History
http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=2503

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 04-02-2009 at 05:32 PM.
  #47  
Old 04-02-2009, 05:30 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

Buck

There is only one time in the Bible where a person is told specifically to repent of sin.

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

This was not said to a lost unbeliever, but Simon who before he was saved practiced sorcery.

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

This is the only instance where a person is specifically told to repent of a sin.

Repent means to change your mind or viewpoint. When John the Baptist spoke to Israelites, he told them to repent from believeing they were safe and secure simply because they were the seed of Abraham. They needed to realize they were sinners in danger of perishing.

Matt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Do you see how repentance is related to thought?

As I showed in Luke, Jesus said "Suppose ye" and "Think ye"

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

So repent means to see things differently, to change one's mind or opinion.

And a person must repent to be saved. If you believe yourself to be righteous, you will never come to Jesus for forgiveness. This is the repentance that is necessary.

But no one can promise to quit sinning. Well, you could, but you will never be able to do it. At least I have never been able to do it.

I met a fellow once who claimed that himself and the members of his church had learned to quit sinning. He was dead serious. I said, "I bet you cannot go one day without sinning." He said, "Oh, that is easy, I can easily go a day without sinning."

I said, "Well, you just blew it, the Bible says boasting is a sin, and you just boasted!"

That is a true story. Man, did he get mad.

Back to Simon. Here is the only case in the Bible where a person is specifically told to repent of a sin. And this was said to a saved and baptized person.

A sinner will sin, that is what sinners do. Yes, they can do some good things, but overall they are evil.

Matt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

So, an unsaved person can do some good things. But a sinner's nature draws them to sin.

It is just like a blind man. He cannot see. And a cripple, he cannot walk. It was only AFTER Jesus healed them that they could see or walk.

Luke 5:30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? 31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.


Here Jesus compares sin to sickness. He is the physician that can heal the sinner of his sin, just as he gave sight to the blind, and made the lame to walk. They could not heal themselves, and we cannot heal ourselves of sin either.

Luke 8:43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any, 44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched. 45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? 46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me. 47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately. 48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.


This woman's disease is a picture of sin. No one but Jesus can heal us of our sin problem. You cannot truly have victory over sin until you come to Jesus.

As I said before, Jesus came to save the ungodly, not the godly. This is what Jesus meant when he said "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick"

You can promise to quit sinning if you want, but I doubt you will be able to accomplish it. I haven't been able to, and neither could Paul.

Acts 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

And was Paul turning from sin when he was saved?? No. He was going to Damascus to persecute Christians. Of course, when Jesus spoke to him, he quickly saw things differently.

Last edited by Winman; 04-02-2009 at 05:46 PM.
  #48  
Old 04-04-2009, 02:04 AM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
Brother Buck,
I think you were right in your previous post, when you said repentance in essence is a change of mind. The problem can start when we start adding things to that, as some type of "evidence" for salvation.

I think what the others are saying is that we have to be careful because some tend to view repentance differently than others, and some see it as a "work" needed for salvation.

Here is a pretty good overview of the various doctrines on repentance down through the ages, (be advised I do not consider all of these as Biblical) you might want to review the entire article, these are just a few points and I'm just trying to show how various denominations can put a spin on these things like repentance and baptism... notice carefully the concept under "turning away from sin."

Repentance (Metanoia) Defined as a Change of Mind

"In contrast to the Church's definition of metanoia as involving contrition, confession, and the performance of acts of penance, Calvin and Luther concluded that it retained its classical sense of "a change of mind." Salvific repentance according to Calvin and Luther was a change of mind whereby one recognized his own sinfulness and need of forgiveness and then turned in faith to God to provide that forgiveness in Christ. In essence, then, Luther and Calvin viewed salvific repentance as an essential part of saving faith."

Turning Away from Sin

"Those holding to this view consider salvific repentance to be the actual turning away from one's sins and not merely a willingness or intention to do so. They would tell an alcoholic, for example, that in order to become a Christian he would first have to stop getting drunk."

"Which of the views stated is the one correct view of salvific repentance? Future articles in this series will demonstrate that the change-of-mind-secure-salvation view is the biblical one.

If a person must give up something or even be willing to do so to obtain salvation, then it is not really a free gift. If one must live an obedient life to keep salvation, then it is conditioned upon faith plus works, and grace is nullified. Other views of salvific repentance fail to grasp the gravity of our plight as sinners in the hands of a holy God.

Nothing which we can do to try and clean up our lives will impress God. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can atone for our sins. And, the only way to appropriate Jesus' blood is by faith alone in Christ alone. The only thing we need to give up is a self-righteous attitude. We must cease viewing ourselves as good enough to merit salvation and instead place all of our trust on what Jesus Christ did on the cross for us as our Substitute."


Full article here:
The Doctrine of Repentance in Church History
http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=2503
Brother Parrish, I'm not being sarcastic, the link was interesting in a historical context, but by the time I got through the Latin and Greek terms I was still a bit confused as to what he was saying. I think we can turn to the Scriptures for a much more efficatious definition of the different kinds of repentance.

Sometimes, you can practice what's called the Law Of First Mention, in this case we see repentance being defined as "changing the mind and heart" since the first Person to repent in the Bible was God:

Ge 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Ex 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Jud 2:18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

Judas Iscariot repented of the evil he did, but he did not have the Scripture below these verses nor was he man enough to go to the cross and seek forgiveness. He sought MAN'S forgiveness:

Matt 27:1 ¶ When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us?
see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

I differ with the learned doctor in that while "turning away from sin" sounds good, it is something, according to Paul, that we can't do. Sin lives within us. We cannot keep the whole law, sin is transgression of the law and failing it at one point fails us on all points. I sin every time I shave and get a haircut. I've been known, on the Sabbath(Jerusalem time) to have not made more than a Sabbath day's journey but maybe 50 times that in my former travels. Wretched man that I am, what I do is not what made me work godly sorrow but what I am: A creature an innocent and perfect Man had to die for.

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Judas Iscariot practice this "sorrow of the world" in that he sought forgiveness and solace from the high priests who condemned Jesus Christ to death and not from God. It's our Godly sorrow and repentance towards God and not towards the world that works salvation, sorrow towards the world works death, and like the high priests statement to Judas, who cares? The world don't. Godly repentance is saying ,God, I'm sorry for who and what I am, wash me in Your Blood and save me by Your sacrifice for me on Calvary, worldly repentance is Judas's repentance, oops, I got caught.

Grace and peace to you., brother.

Tony Bones Oth.
  #49  
Old 04-04-2009, 05:51 AM
Buck's Avatar
Buck Buck is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Twin Lake, Michigan
Posts: 39
Default

re·pent 1 (rĭ-pěnt') Pronunciation Key
v. re·pent·ed, re·pent·ing, re·pents

v. intr.

To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.
v. tr.

To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins.
To cause to feel remorse or regret.

[Middle English repenten, from Old French repentir : re-, re- + pentir, to be sorry (from Vulgar Latin *paenitīre, from Latin paenitēre).]
re·pent'er n.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
  #50  
Old 04-04-2009, 06:38 AM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

Well, that is the modern interpretation of the word repent, but not what it meant years ago, just as the word "replenish" in Gen 1:28 and Gen 9:1 meant "to fill" the earth, but now has come to mean "refill". God's Word has not changed, but the English language has.

If repent means to be sorry for sin, then God is a sinner.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Judges 2:18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

1 Sam 15:35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

2 Sam 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

1 Chron 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Psa 106:45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

Jer 26:19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.

Amos 7:3 The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD.

Amos 7:6 The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD.

God cannot sin, so repented cannot mean to turn from sin.

Here is an article about repentance from Curtis Hutson that is pretty good.

http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/repentance.html
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com