Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

View Poll Results: should Christians confess their sins?
yes 18 78.26%
yes
18 78.26%
no 2 8.70%
no
2 8.70%
other please comment 3 13.04%
other please comment
3 13.04%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #61  
Old 06-14-2009, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
Forrest, your comment above jumped out at me. I've been wondering why you have a problem with the Biblical concept of believers confessing sin to God... so it that what this is all about, somehow you associate the word "confess" with your disability? That is interesting, I'm not sure I follow you though... are you suggesting that someone here would position your disease as an unconfessed sin? Because I certainly don't feel that way at all. As I have stated, I think the issue is walking in fellowship vs. walking in darkness. I just want to make sure I understand your view...
I don't have a problem with a believer who confesses their sin. Re-read my posts. That should be clear. I just do not see 1 John like you and many others do. And I do not associate the word confess with my disability in any way whatsoever.

You're right. I don't know if anyone on this Forum feels this way. Everyone has been kind to me, except some who have been banned. Thank you for getting clarification.

Believe it or not brother, I know from personal experience that some attribute car wrecks, disease, suffering, financial difficulties, and sickness, for example, as chastisement from God as a result of not confessing your sin.

Personally, I once confessed my sins according to 1 John 1:9 but after the MS put me in a wheelchair and in bed, I began to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and my understanding of that specific verse in 1 John changed. No books, conversations, or songs changed my mind. Just prayer and saturation with Gods word and the Word.

All the disability did was strip me of self so I could really know Christ in a deeper way. Therefore, I glory in my infirmity because through it God has taught ME the preeminence and complete sufficiency of CHRIST.

More of my testimony is here: http://www.christdirected.com/my-story/
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  #62  
Old 06-14-2009, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
I don't have a problem with a believer who confesses their sin. Re-read my posts. That should be clear. I just do not see 1 John like you and many others do. And I do not associate the word confess with my disability in any way whatsoever.

You're right. I don't know if anyone on this Forum feels this way. Everyone has been kind to me, except some who have been banned. Thank you for getting clarification.
No problem, thanks for your reply brother.
And to be clear, I don't have a problem with your view, as I stated from the top back in post 25 and then again in 35, I think there are good men on both sides of this.
  #63  
Old 06-14-2009, 07:31 PM
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Forrest,

you know it has been your life of closeness to the Lord Jesus that has caused me to want him more just as you have come to know him. I can't speak for George but it would seem the same for him as possibly many others.

your insight, your web page, your demeanor has always been a blessing to us. your very life not only encourages us but convicts us of our deeper need of Christ.

you are very special to me and in that I know you are very special to my Lord.
  #64  
Old 06-15-2009, 06:32 AM
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Default Treasures of Darkness

Isaiah 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

Thank you brother Forrest for your great testimony. Remember God has a plan for our life. Be it like Job of old, he was molded and refined for God's glory. Surely, you will find that there is treasure of darkness.
  #65  
Old 06-15-2009, 07:56 AM
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I've been away from the computer this weekend, and I see you've moved on quite a bit so I'll refrain from pulling up quotes from five pages ago.

However, to all that disagree with the practical interpretation of confessing sins, but rather insist on a strict doctrinal interpretation...

Someone brought up our sanctification in Christ pointing out our position. Position speaks of doctrine, and it is, of course, vital that a believer understand his position in Christ. Yet, have you also failed to see the practical side to sanctification as mentioned in the scripture? That is, the day to day (or commonly known as daily or progressive) sanctification to be gained by all believers.

It is God's call to holiness. In Christ (position) we are made holy (see I Cor. 1:30), yet in our walk, sometimes we are seemingly everything but holy - thus the call to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, etc. (II Cor. 7:1).

A few verses and I've got to go...

POSITIONAL SANCIFICATION

I Cor 6:1 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION

II Tim. 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

The list could go on, but my time is short. The truth here expressed is the same truth to be received with the former topic. There is a practical walk to be perfected by the believer which includes (among many other things) confession of sins and restored fellowship (I John 1).

The reason that you're not reaching this conclusion is that you are applying each passage ONLY in its doctrinal sense and failing to see the practical. Many of the previous posts have been right on doctrinally, but the Christian walk (and fellowship) is very different that our position in Christ. Exa. ...and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
  #66  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:20 AM
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I said yes. We should confess our sins here, so we won't have to confess them at the Judgment Seat of Christ. We're saved from Hell, but God's chastisement is still there if we sin.
  #67  
Old 06-15-2009, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbiwolski View Post
I've been away from the computer this weekend, and I see you've moved on quite a bit so I'll refrain from pulling up quotes from five pages ago.

However, to all that disagree with the practical interpretation of confessing sins, but rather insist on a strict doctrinal interpretation...

Someone brought up our sanctification in Christ pointing out our position. Position speaks of doctrine, and it is, of course, vital that a believer understand his position in Christ. Yet, have you also failed to see the practical side to sanctification as mentioned in the scripture? That is, the day to day (or commonly known as daily or progressive) sanctification to be gained by all believers.

It is God's call to holiness. In Christ (position) we are made holy (see I Cor. 1:30), yet in our walk, sometimes we are seemingly everything but holy - thus the call to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, etc. (II Cor. 7:1).

A few verses and I've got to go...

POSITIONAL SANCIFICATION

I Cor 6:1 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION

II Tim. 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

The list could go on, but my time is short. The truth here expressed is the same truth to be received with the former topic. There is a practical walk to be perfected by the believer which includes (among many other things) confession of sins and restored fellowship (I John 1).

The reason that you're not reaching this conclusion is that you are applying each passage ONLY in its doctrinal sense and failing to see the practical. Many of the previous posts have been right on doctrinally, but the Christian walk (and fellowship) is very different that our position in Christ. Exa. ...and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Brother Parrish gave his answer to verse 9 (see post #54), and I agree with him. Here are some other verses in the same chapter. What is your understanding?
1John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?
1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?
1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?
1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?
  #68  
Old 06-15-2009, 12:26 PM
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Here is another observation, comment, and question for consideration.
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
I understand, as I’m sure you do, that there is absolutely, unequivocally, and undeniably no darkness in God whatsoever and He is light. Surely you agree with that. With that reality in mind, read verse 7.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
What do the words, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light….” Mean to you? Especially the words “…as he is in the light”?

If the word “walk” denotes a progressive and practical walk, do you believe that our progressive and practical walk can ever be a walk of light “…as he (God) is in the light”?
  #69  
Old 06-15-2009, 01:33 PM
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First of all, I used a "Pauline" illustration to convey the truth of the practical application of scripture to daily Christian living. Now that we're in John's epistles, we've crossed an "invisible line" in one regard - that is, there is some application to someone in the future here.

You have to admit, Paul writes to the church plainly about our position in Christ, and everyone here seems to grasp that. Yet, here in I John, things get murky, and phrasing and wording becomes intricate and sometimes hard to reconcile on the surface with Paul's plain foundation. The explanation is this: There is a practicle application and a literal application of John's writings (some unfamiliar with sound and right division will flip out here). The practicle will match a Christian's daily walk and supply teaching for you and I today. The literal will yield doctrine aimed at a saint in the tribulation, and instruction for "keeping himself" (5:18).

Remember, not all of that Book was written doctrinally TO you (yes, I'm familiar with II Tim. 3:16). The saint during the tribulation will pick that Book up and find out exactly what he is to do (with the help of a couple of Jehovah's true "witnesses"!).

Now, the practicle application for you and I in much of I John is obtained by realizing the two natures of the believer. You can study the passages and see where the old man or new man is addressed, practically.
I John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
New man or old man?

That's easy. The new creature is created in Christ Jesus unto good works and Paul says when he sins (in Rom. 7:17-18) "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:"

Now a literal application of much of the book insists upon one keeping commandments and doing righteousness, etc. I'll back this up more if necessary.

Something else to consider. Notice near the end of the second chapter:

2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

The command is to abide in him. Is this a doctrinal command to the "little children" whose "sins are forgiven you" (vs12)? Can they fall out of Christ? OR is the command in connection to their daily walk?

If they disobey the exhortation, chances are that they will be "ashamed before him at his coming." If they disobey the exhortation, then they (little children) will not be abiding in him. Doctrinal or Practical?

You decide. (You can believe what you want to where you want to, but in a perfect Book, it has to match up EVERYWHERE, or somewhere the teaching is wrong.)

2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
2:10-11 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

If you try to apply the end of that last verse literally to you and I, then by your own recent admission...(you see what I mean?)
  #70  
Old 06-15-2009, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Brother Pbiwolski wrote: You have to admit, Paul writes to the church plainly about our position in Christ, and everyone here seems to grasp that. Yet, here in I John, things get murky, and phrasing and wording becomes intricate and sometimes hard to reconcile on the surface with Paul's plain foundation. The explanation is this: There is a practical application and a literal application of John's writings (some unfamiliar with sound and right division will flip out here). The practical will match a Christian's daily walk and supply teaching for you and I today. The literal will yield doctrine aimed at a saint in the tribulation, and instruction for "keeping himself" (5:18).
As always, your comments require careful contemplation. Just so I will know for sure what you are saying let me ask:

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.
1Jo 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Let me ask you regarding the verses below. Is this written for me today? Yes or no. If it is written for me today, is it doctrine (position) or practical application (progressive) or both?
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I am simply attempting to understand what you think is a practical application and a literal application of John's writings in the above referenced verses.
 

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