Exactly! If a passage does not directly apply, there is still a Biblical principle that does.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

For me, I'll start at Genesis and read through to the Revelation, I'll believe every word, and accept that every word is there for me to know, every truth is there for me to understand, and that every teaching is there for me to obey.

I must be missing something.

Do you keep the Sabbath? I mean, the Sabbath is clearly for us to understand, but how is it something we obey?

[George]

Re: Jerry's & brother Tim's Posts #195, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Jerry, I guess we need a new printing of the KJB with the parts that count for us marked differently. ( I'm soo confoosed! ) I am reminded of a statement I heard Bill O'Reilly once say. It went something like this. The Old Testament is just allegory; the parts of the New Testament where Jesus is speaking is the only factual truth, the other parts are just the commentary by men.
For me, I'll start at Genesis and read through to the Revelation, I'll believe every word, and accept that every word is there for me to know, every truth is there for me to understand, and that every teaching is there for me to obey.

God commands us to “rightly divide” His Holy Word:
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Please notice: This not a REQUEST – It’s a COMMANDMENT!

God does have “divisions” in his word:
1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: (God views the people of the world as either: Jews; Gentiles; or the church)

Every single person on the earth from the birth of the church up until today has always fallen under these categories (with no exceptions!). You are either a Jew; or a Gentile; or a saint (a member of Christ’s body - the church). There are divisions, whether you recognize them or not.

How do you harmonize the following verses?

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Who does the above verse apply to?
Who are they that do His commandments?
Do Christians need the tree of life, when we have drunk from the water of life? When we already possess eternal life"?

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If we already have "eternal life", then who needs to eat of the tree of life? Hmmm?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 3:1 – 7; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:24, 4:4)
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


Where are Christ’s followers (that are preaching "the gospel”) that have these signs today?
Does God confirm His word “with signs following” today? If not, why not?

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

There are 27 verses in the New Testament with the words “mystery” or “mysteries” in them (There are none in the Old Testament), one each in Matthew, Mark, and Luke (3); and four in Revelation (4+3=7); the rest of the verses (20) are in the Apostle Paul’s writings. God revealed to Paul some “mysteries” that He didn’t reveal to the other Apostles – not until after His revelation to Paul first.

When Paul talks about “my gospel”, he is not talking about “the gospel” in Mark 16: 15-20! He is talking about “my gospel” – a “gospel” that God revealed first to Him and then to the other Apostles. This was a mystery – revealed to the Apostle Paul because he was the Apostle to the Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

If you try to “HARMONIZE” the Scriptures, instead of “RIGHTLY DIVIDE” them you will (at some point) have to change God’s words or else make them say (or "mean") something other than what they truly say. And calling someone a “Hyper-Dispensationalist” or a “Ultra-Dispensationalist” won’t change the facts.

Please check out my Post #11 under "Bible Studies" (Revelation 22:19 - a Paladin54 Post) for a further explanation.

[Brother Tim]

Brandon, in my attempt to be brief for time's sake, I couldn't be comprehensive with my earlier statement. I do suppose it served a purpose anyhow. I'm not advocating returning to OT rules. The teachings of the Scriptures are to be taken as a whole. The principles taught to Israel as rules still apply to us today. In the case of the Sabbath, the principle is that God has designed us in such a way that we need to set aside one day a week from our usual routine to reflect on God for our spiritual and physical health. Today, that is commonly Sunday for most of us. The principle has not changed. The spiritual intent of the OT laws still have application today, though the letter of the law does not.

[George]

To: Jerry & brother Tim,

Re: My Post #203

Please explain why the term "kingdom of heaven" is found only in the Book of Matthew (31 verses) and no where's else in the entire Bible?

And then there is the term "kingdom of God" (68 verses - 5 verses in Matthew) which is not found in the Old Testament; but is found in all of the Gospels; Acts; and some of Paul's letters - But it cannot be found in the Pastoral Letters, or Hebrews, all the way through to the end of Revelation.

Are these two (2) "kingdoms" the same? If "heaven" and God are not the same - can they be the same?

If we are to make "sense" of the Bible - we MUST "rightly divide" the word of truth (keeping the Jew; the Gentile; and the church separate), and we MUST rely on the Holy Spirit to illuminate the truth for us - Real genuine Bible study should not be just an academic exercise or a mere intellectual pursuit. Instead, true Bible study should be an honest and sincere search for THE TRUTH. “What saith the Scriptures?”

[Brother Tim]

George, I'm sorry, but I can't chop the Scripture into as many tiny pieces as you may. "Rightly dividing" says more than just "dividing", it also must be "right". I don't have a problem with the OT/NT split. God made that pretty clear. I just haven't bought into splitting the NT into all the parts that some believe. Just so you can think me to be really wacky, I'm not pre-trib either. I don't know that there is a label for me prophecy-wise.

[chette777]

[QUOTE=jerry;3298]Funny how this applies to Peter in the church age:/QUOTE]

Actually when Jesus Spoke those words, Peter was still in the Preparation for the Kingdom Age not he Church Age. the church age officially satrted at Acts 9 and the Kingdom was postponed officially. so it did apply to peter at that moment, but not for you today.

I divide a little more at certain points than you. However please don't assume I am a Hyperdispensationalist. I am not. there is a extreme to dispensationalism and the Hypers are at the one end. while those who don't divide at all are at the other end of extremity.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Brandon, in my attempt to be brief for time's sake, I couldn't be comprehensive with my earlier statement. I do suppose it served a purpose anyhow. I'm not advocating returning to OT rules. The teachings of the Scriptures are to be taken as a whole. The principles taught to Israel as rules still apply to us today. In the case of the Sabbath, the principle is that God has designed us in such a way that we need to set aside one day a week from our usual routine to reflect on God for our spiritual and physical health. Today, that is commonly Sunday for most of us. The principle has not changed. The spiritual intent of the OT laws still have application today, though the letter of the law does not.

I don't mean to belabor the point, but you did use the word obey, and as for application, I would like to know how you apply the "principle" of the Sabbath:

Ex 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Ex 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Ex 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

If the Sabbath applies to me, I can not be "applying" it if I don't actually follow it, can I? The Sabbath wasn't just about resting, it was a covenant sign. If it applies to us, we better actually follow it, I would think. I don't agree that the principle of the Sabbath was that we are designed to require a day of rest -- if anything, that is a side-issue to the fact that the Sabbath was a required sign of God's covenant with Israel, and not following it was a crime worthy of death.

I don't think it's hyper-dispensationalism to recognize that obeying the Sabbath is for the children of Israel (not to mention the seventh day, not the first). Frankly, I have no problem saying I am not, in any way, required to obey the Sabbath. There are hundreds of rules and ordinances that have no tangible application to the life of a believer in the Church Age. I am sure there is something to be understood about not "seething a kid in his mother's milk," but I am not going to worry about putting a slice of cheese on my hamburger while it's still cooking on the grill. (In fact, I'm not so sure I even know exactly what it means to "seethe a kid in his mother's milk.) I am not concerned with obeying that law because it is not for me to obey.

Now, I understand you said you are not advocating following OT rules, but if you are going to say that we have to "obey" their "principles," there is still a whole can of worms to sort through. I agree wholeheartedly that every verse in Scripture has truth to be understood for me. But quite a bit of Scripture is indeed not for me to obey.

[chette777]

Jerry,

all is written for your learning but not allis written for your practice. It was like you and connie counting names for the number of the Anti-christ in this dispensation. you can't apply the practice to Count and know the number of the man which is 666 in this dispenation. even your name may well come up to 666. but in the Tribulation that practice will be used. you don't need a new KJB you need to rightly divide and apply scriptures. some are not meant for today.

Like turning the other Cheek. if some one comes at you with a knife are you going to turn the other cheek if he stabs you in the right one? no you are either going to run like the dickens or you will fight becasue at that moment you can't live peacably with all men. but in the kingdom you need not revenge yourself for if the slapping (stabing) party in not in the right Jesus will take care of it straight away.

[Brother Tim]

George asked:
Are these two (2) "kingdoms" the same? If "heaven" and God are not the same - can they be the same?

Compare the following: (emphasis mine)

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:14-15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

And these: (emphasis mine)

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

It appears to me that the answer to the question is "yes". The two "kingdoms" are the same.