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  #1  
Old 06-20-2009, 03:27 PM
premio53 premio53 is offline
 
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Default Don't tell me what it “means” just tell me what it “says”

Neh 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

How many times have you heard someone piously state that he cares not what a verse or word means but what it says? Practically every cult I know of is guilty of that philosophy. Lets look at some verses and see what they say and then lets figure out what they mean.

Pro 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him “betimes.”

For many years I thought “betimes” meant “many times.” It actually “means” to chasten him “early” or “promptly” and ties in with Proverbs 19:18 where it says “Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.” Any good reference Bible will give the correct “meaning.”

1Co 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

If we take this verse for what it “says” then Mormon practice appears to be legitimate. But what does it mean? Here is the context.

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

There were Corinthians who were teaching that no one (including Christ) ever rose from the dead, yet they still taught and practiced the ordinance of baptism. Since the whole point of baptism is that it signifies the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, the act of baptism would be an absurdity if Christ did not rise.

For those who believed that Christ did not rise from the dead, they truly were being "baptized for the dead" because they were being baptized for a dead savior, and not One Who rose from the dead.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

We know that cultists use this verse to show that all who are not baptized are damned. Many hyperdispensationalists teach the same thing. However, this is a case of making the verse mean just the exact opposite of what it says! They conveniently leave out the little conjunction “but” which must be applied to the entire verse! Jesus says plainly that “he that believeth not shall be damned” while excluding the first part of the verse.

Another verse of similar construction is:

Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Is it not clear that the flip side is if he puts away his wife for the cause of fornication and marries another, he has not committed adultery?

You can find this throughout the word of God and I find it troubling that some would recommend to a young Christian to disregard attempting to find the “meaning” of a verse and just take it for what it “says.” It is a double edged sword.

Last edited by premio53; 06-20-2009 at 03:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2009, 03:51 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Thank you bro. premio 53 for the input. Sometimes, we Filipino lacked the understanding of your English. I have in my possesion a Bible which the KJV. I am reading it and sometimes I've crossed some difficult passages of the Bible so that practically I looked at the dictionary. While I believe, God gives us wisdom and some of the words in the KJV was already defined, I still need to understand what it really says thus it's meaning. In Nehemiah they did not just read the book of the law but they gave sense and caused them to understand the reading. What profit anyway if you just read and not understand. Profit wise, I thank the Lord that I found this Forum to learn more about God's Word. Thanks to God, thanks to His Word(KJV/AV) and thanks to this Forum(AV16111). I'm learning...
  #3  
Old 06-20-2009, 05:00 PM
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George George is offline
 
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Default Re: " Don't tell me what it “means” just tell me what it “says”"

Aloha all,

After not posting for about a week premio53 returns with another absurd and perverse Post!

Real genuine Bible believers ALWAYS want to know what God's words SAY - because people (Cults Foremost) can MAKE THEM "MEAN" ANYTHING THEY WANT THEM TO "MEAN"!

I do not know WHO premio53 is, but he/she has the whole thing BACKWARDS! Everything that this person has said in his/her Thread: "Don't tell me what it “means” just tell me what it “says" is contrary to sound Bible teaching and instruction!
Quote:
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And
this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
I for one, do NOT want to know WHAT premio53 (or anyone else for that matter) "THINKS" the Holy word of God "MEANS" to him/her! Who cares WHAT he/she "THINKS"? I want to know WHAT God has to SAY! I am sick and tired of man's "PRIVATE INTERPRETATION" of the Holy words of God!

This perverse Post is an indirect attack on everything I have been promoting on this Forum for nearly a year and a half. All of the CULTS employ premio53's methodology and end up - twisting, wresting, adding, subtracting, and ultimately CHANGING the Holy words of God to suit their own private agenda!

Premio53's whole premise is both ABSURD and totally WITHOUT any Scriptural foundation! Practically every Thread and Post this man/woman has posted has been fraught with False Doctrine and CONTROVERSY!

The Lord did NOT say; Search to find out what people "think" my words "MEAN"! He said to "Search the Scriptures" {John 5:39}
Quote:
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
BEWARE! Premio53 is a "FALSE TEACHER" and a "TROUBLEMAKER". He/she has been involved in one "controversy" after another from the moment he/she showed up on this Forum.

This man/woman has nothing to offer in the way of "edification" or spiritual "profit". We don't need to know anything about this person, to know what to do with him/her - and his/her "FALSE DOCTRINE":

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
  #4  
Old 06-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Wow.

Bro George, I think you way overreacted there. Of course, I think this started when premio58 gave support to some of my posts in another thread where you and I disagree.

But I agree with premio58 here. Not because it opposes you, but because I think he/she is right. And there is scripture to support this:

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Here is an example of Jesus explaining the scriptures to the disciples that they did not understand. The very definition of the word expounded here is;

1) to unfold the meaning of what is said, explain, expound
2) to translate into one's native language

Another example is found in Acts.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

You see here, the Ethopian eunuch could clearly read these scriptures, but he did not understand them. Philip himself asked the man if he understood these scriptures, why would he do that if the meaning is not important? So Philip began at the same scripture and preached unto him Jesus.

And in support of Mark 16:16 which premio58 posted as an example, verses Acts 8:36-37 prove that the important factor in salvation is believeing, not baptism. You should only be baptized if you believe on Jesus with your heart. So baptism is not part of salvation. And these scriptures in Acts give more meaning and understanding to Mark 16:16

The point is, a person must understand the scriptures.

I do not appreciate the bullying that goes on around here lately. When you sincerely disagree with a few here, they accuse you of all sorts of things, being an unbeliever, not rightly dividing the word of truth, false teacher, heresy, on and on.

You know, there were folks that used this same tactic on Jesus, the prophets and apostles.

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Matt 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Calling people names like "false teacher" is very reminicient of the Pharisees, not Jesus.

Last edited by Winman; 06-20-2009 at 06:36 PM.
  #5  
Old 06-20-2009, 07:16 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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I think this started when premio53 set out to decieve people, when he is really tandy1650 that was banned from these forums a while back.

let me quote from my post on the thread rightly dividing the book of acts


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by premio53 View Post
I must say that this is a strange forum. I simply wanted to discuss scripture and everything becomes a personal attack.



You accuse Winman of maybe not being saved because he disagreed with your interpretation concerning two gospels and then in this thread after Winman presented strong arguments supported by scripture you accuse him of:

1) you will not rightly divide the word of truth
2) preconceived Ideas as to what the scriptures teach
3) failure to properly study to show thy self approved

I simply thanked Winman for presenting what I thought were strong scriptural arguments and couldn't understand why anyone would accuse him of not studying the scriptures. The next thing I know George comes out of a whirlwind and slams me for not being hospitable because he thinks I was attacking you while demanding to know everything about my personal life instead of addressing the scriptures!

I have no idea who George is but he seems to run this forum. That's fine. I'm new and understand my pecking order but I really don't understand the sensitive feelings. I will refrain from posting for awhile.
Lets address the underlined shall we?
Premio53 said "I have no idea who George is"

First of you are a member of the "FFF" Forums, so I am quite sure you know who Brother George is with the scorn he recieves from that place.

I will assume? that from your username Premio53 you are the same premio53 from FFF forums, and the same premio53 who goes by the name SOUTHERN BAPTIST
here http://www.topix.com/member/profile/premio53

Now, it seems that premio53 likes chess is that right?, just like Tandy1650 likes his chess? Striking similaritys here also with a snippet of testimony from Tandy1650 and premio53

Tandy1650

Quote:
Quote:
When it came to lying and stealing, it didn't bother me and I had nothing but "religion" to comfort me. In 1971, while working at a grocery store, someone left a Chick tract entitled "This Was Your Life" in a flower pot. I took it home and after reading it, the Holy Spirit brought me under much conviction and I no longer tried to fool myself into thinking that I was saved. A week or two passed when after hearing a sermon by my pastor, I finally cried from my heart to the Lord to have mercy and save me for Jesus sake. There was a peace that passed over my soul that words can't describe and for the first time in my life I layed down in bed and wasn't afraid to meet God.
Premio53 (from the linked site above)

Quote:
Quote:
If you stand before God and say “Lord I got baptized, I didn't have any musical instruments in the church, I quit my cussing, I quit getting drunk, I did this and this and this...” how much merit will that get you? Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the WASHING OF REGENERATION, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; When I was 18 years old in 1971 I cried out with a REPENTANT heart “God be merciful to me a sinner and save me for Jesus sake!” It was then that I “passed from death unto life.” Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
I am beginning to think these two men are one in the same

In addition here is another snipet that confirms they are the same person
from this link from http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/...A7Q1OOH3APT/p4 POST 75
Premio53

Quote:
Quote:
This is also where the Church of Christ has twisted scripture with human wisdom. I have talked with members of the Church of Christ and have read their tracts. This is the PROCESS that is given.

1.Believe
2.Repent
3.Confess
4.Be baptized

In scripture REPENTANCE always comes BEFORE faith! That is why Romans 10:10 says that it is with the HEART that man believeth unto righteousness; …
From these forums by Tandy1650 http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....+tracts&page=2 post17

Quote:
Quote:
The problem with the Church of Christ is they reverse the God given order of repentance and faith and make salvation a process. They teach:

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Confess
4. Be baptized
In other words just believe and then start working your way to heaven.

Baptists have always taught that repentance comes before faith. Repentance will bring about a change of heart and attitude toward their sin. They will see themselves guilty before God and in need of salvation. There will be a desire to forsake the sin and turn to God.

Romans 10:10 clearly states that "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Psalms 120:2 Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Does this seem like a genuine person to you? It is quite right to admonish people like this and completely scriptural and correct in the site of the Lord.
I am grateful for a learned Brother like George who as well as being an acomplished Bible teacher has great discernment on these matters, I have seen scripture that was hazy to me blown free of cobwebs and dust by Georges posts, Gods spirit has revealed "truth" to me through these posts, for I seek nothing else only truth no matter how much it may hurt to hear it or accept it. On top of all that I can testify personally on George and his Brethrens kindness and Christian love and I know by the Holy Spirit of God who lives and abides in me that he is my Brother.
Some need to start seeing scripture how it is not how they think it is and allow the Spirit of truth to show them the way.

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

If you cant seperate between good and evil then you most certainly cannot understand the deep things of God.


1 Corinthians 2:9-13
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Last edited by peopleoftheway; 06-20-2009 at 07:22 PM.
  #6  
Old 06-20-2009, 07:39 PM
Manny Rodriguez Manny Rodriguez is offline
 
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I'm not here to take sides (...not yet anyways, I haven't thoroughly investigated the heated discussions at hand yet to even know who I agree or disagree with). But I've noticed that some people on these boards, who I respect for their stand for the KJB, are very upset with Premio53. Part of the hostility is due to the opinion that Premio53 should give a detailed introduction of himself concerning who he is and some info so as to ascertain what his basic theological premises are. Now I am not going to debate whether such a request is a good rule or not for a public Internet forum. I'll leave that to the discretion of Diligent since he is the forum administrator and can therefore run this show however he likes. After all, he's the one payin for the place.

But as to Premio53, I happen to know him a little. Premio53 might not like what I'm going to do but I'm going to do it anyways in his defence. If he is the same guy I am thinking of, Premio53 comes from the same church that I am a member of (and have been a member of for over 20 years/I am a Missionary sent out from this church). He is not a member here anymore but my understanding is that he left on good terms to pursue the ministry and do the work of the Lord. He graduated from the same Bible school that I did, which is a local church ministry that is operated under my Pastor, a very able Bible teacher. This would mean that we are somewhat of the same circle. Unless things have changed, this means that what I know about Premio53 is that he is a true King James Bible-believer, who holds the KJB as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice. This also means that he received his theological training in a KJV Bible-believing, non-Calvinistic, hell fire and brimstone preaching, separated, pre-millineal, mission-minded, soul-winning, old-fashioned, fundamental, independent, Baptist church. Amongst those that know him personally, Premio53 is known to be a very zealous and diligent student of God's Word. He has the testimony of being one our Bible Institute's best students. He has the testimony of being a true soul winner and soldier of the Lord and an earnest contender of the faith.

When I used to post at FFF, Premio53 was one of the good guys. I am surprised to see him being regarded as one of the "bad guys" over here. I didn't see that coming. Nevertheless, I'm glad to see Premio53 on these boards.

I'm sure whatever personal problems that my other friends on these boards are having with Premio53 can be worked out between the two without a plea for Premio53's banishment. I would encourage such.

God bless the brethren!

(Now back to killin each other. )
  #7  
Old 06-20-2009, 07:45 PM
premio53 premio53 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny Rodriguez View Post
I'm not here to take sides (...not yet anyways, I haven't thoroughly investigated the heated discussions at hand yet to even know who I agree or disagree with). But I've noticed that some people on these boards, who I respect for their stand for the KJB, are very upset with Premio53. Part of the hostility is due to the opinion that Premio53 should give a detailed introduction of himself concerning who he is and some info so as to ascertain what his basic theological premises are. Now I am not going to debate whether such a request is a good rule or not for a public Internet forum. I'll leave that to the discretion of Diligent since he is the forum administrator and can therefore run this show however he likes. After all, he's the one payin for the place.

But as to Premio53, I happen to know him a little. Premio53 might not like what I'm going to do but I'm going to do it anyways in his defence. If he is the same guy I am thinking of, Premio53 comes from the same church that I am a member of (and have been a member of for over 20 years/I am a Missionary sent out from this church). He is not a member here anymore but my understanding is that he left on good terms to pursue the ministry and do the work of the Lord. He graduated from the same Bible school that I did, which is a local church ministry that is operated under my Pastor, a very able Bible teacher. This would mean that we are somewhat of the same circle. Unless things have changed, this means that what I know about Premio53 is that he is a true King James Bible-believer, who holds the KJB as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice. This also means that he received his theological training in a KJV Bible-believing, non-Calvinistic, hell fire and brimstone preaching, separated, pre-millineal, mission-minded, soul-winning, old-fashioned, fundamental, independent, Baptist church. Amongst those that know him personally, Premio53 is known to be a very zealous and diligent student of God's Word. He has the testimony of being one our Bible Institute's best students. He has the testimony of being a true soul winner and soldier of the Lord and an earnest contender of the faith.

When I used to post at FFF, Premio53 was one of the good guys. I am surprised to see him being regarded as one of the "bad guys" over here. I didn't see that coming. Nevertheless, I'm glad to see Premio53 on these boards.

I'm sure whatever personal problems that my other friends on these boards are having with Premio53 can be worked out between the two without a plea for Premio53's banishment. I would encourage such.

God bless the brethren!

(Now back to killin each other. )
Manny I appreciate those kind words. I do have some strong opinions concerning doctrine as everyone on this board. I realize that a strong non-Ruckman view (not meant in a bad way) of dispensationalism especially on this board will cause conflict. I will say good by to this board with no malice toward anyone. George, if I have personally offended you I apologize. This is my last post. May God bless.
  #8  
Old 06-20-2009, 08:28 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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I do think Peopleoftheway provided good evidence that Tandy1650 and premio58 could be the same person. Those posts are amazingly similar.

That said, I still do not appreciate the bullying that goes on. I have been on this forum just over 6 months. I have no idea who Tandy1650 is (or premio58) or why they were banned. I don't really care either. Everything was fine for me on this forum at first. Yes, I disagreed with Chette on the Gap Theory awhile back (and I still disagree). But when I disagreed with Bro George everything started to become uncomfortable. I have a lot of respect for Bro George, he comes across to me a very serious student of the Bible who truly loves the Lord. But I do not think him infallible, as I know I am not infallible. But since disagreeing with Bro George I have been accused of not rightly dividing the word of truth, making my own private interpretations of God's Word, and changing God's Word. I think the truth is I upset the apple cart. I presented many scriptures that argued against Bro George's interpretation of the book of Acts. And the scriptures I presented were sound.

Even the apostles disagreed on the scriptures. Paul said he withstood Peter to his face.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Now, I seriously doubt Paul accused Peter of changing the Word of God, or being a false teacher. In fact, we know what Paul said:

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Now, I can handle disagreement, I don't have to make all these accusations about a person. Some here want to know my personal life. Ridiculous. I have never asked anyone about their personal life and never intend to. I am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ, I do not go around judging myself superior to others. It was insinuated I was a regular over at FFF. I had never heard of FFF until I came here. I did try to sign up over there to answer a question posed to me over there by FSSL, but it will not allow me to post. And that's fine, I really don't want to associate with those who do not believe the King James Bible is God's Word.

I did not know that premio58 is Tandy1650, although it does appear very likely. But I agreed with this post, not to be contrary to Bro George or anyone else here. I did not come to this forum to argue and fight with anyone, I actually came here to fellowship with like believers in the Word of God. I don't expect all of us to agree 100% of the time, and I think that is good. It is good when we study the scriptures to see if a doctine is sound or not, it is a great learning experience really. So healthy debate is good. But when people attack you because you disagree with them, that is not Christian behaviour in my opinion.

You know, maybe I should leave this forum as well. I have never been one to cower from a bully. I can handle bullies and have many times. But I am getting too old to put up with nonsense like this. I am going to have to think on this awhile.
  #9  
Old 06-20-2009, 09:53 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Wow.
Bro George, I think you way overreacted there.
I have to agree with you Winman.
I'm sorry to say I am quickly losing respect for the patterns of some of the regulars here. It's getting a little silly with the demands for personal information and so forth, if anyone knows of other good KJV boards please let me know as I am growing weary of the lack of moderation here, and I wouldn't mind looking at other boards to see how they are run. The bashing is getting too common and it's getting more and more trivial. Nothing against anyone personally, just getting concerned over the way things are going here, it's too bad really.

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 06-20-2009 at 10:14 PM.
  #10  
Old 06-21-2009, 01:44 AM
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George George is offline
 
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Default Re: "Don't tell me what it “means” just tell me what it “says”"

Aloha brother Manny and brother Parrish, and Winman,

Please read what premio53 wrote in this Thread. Do you agree with his premise?
Quote:
"How many times have you heard someone piously state that he cares not what a verse or word means but what it says? Practically every cult I know of is guilty of that philosophy. Lets look at some verses and see what they say and then lets figure out what they mean."
Premio53 was taking a direct swipe at what I have said (over and over) on this Forum. It was a clever and subtle swipe, but it was still from direct quotes that I have said on this Forum many times.

I really don't care WHO he is; or WHAT school he went to; or HOW good a student he was. What I want to know - is what he posted in his thread "Biblical Truth"?

Do we NEED a man (or men) in order to UNDERSTAND God's word? A simple YES or NO will do?

Quote:
1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
According to the Holy Bible - these 'WORDS" of Scripture are true, and so while it is nice, and convenient to have Bible teachers - it is NOT necessary.

And in these days of Apostasy a Christian is far better off NOT relying on men for "spiritual understanding", since there are so many "apostates" out there in the churches.

It's quite simple really - premio53's premise is either "True" or it is "False". Running to a few verses that do NOT address the issue directly does NOT "prove" his "private interpretation" of the clear Biblical teaching in this matter.

According to the Apostle John - we have "an unction from the Holy one"; and we "need NOT that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

According to premio53 (and brother Winman) we NEED someone to TEACH (or "EXPLAIN") the Scriptures to us, in order for us to UNDERSTAND them. According to the "words" of the Apostle John we DON'T NEED any man to teach us! Now WHO do you suppose I am going to believe "premio53" (WHO I don't even know) or brother Winman (WHO I also don't know either), or the Apostle John? It's NO CONTEST!

And what about the Apostle Paul's testimony in 1Corinthians Chapter 2:1-16?

Quote:
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

{WHO is the US? Are they just Bible school graduates? According to the Apostle Paul (who was writing to the church at Corinth), it is God who reveals spiritual things to men - NOT men!}


11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

{WHO is the WE? WHO is the US? Are they just Bible school graduates? According to the Apostle Paul, WE have received God's Holy Spirit so "that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." - NOT men!}

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

{WHO is the WE?
Are they just Bible school graduates? According to the Apostle Paul, it is the Holy Ghost WHO TEACHETH us "spiritual things" - NOT MEN!}

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

If you are going to spiritually judge this matter, read ALL of Premio53's Posts, and see where he (a STRANGER to the Forum) openly criticizes brother Chette and assigns evil motives to his Posts. Is this what a Christian brother (or sister) is supposed to do so soon after joining a Bible Forum? Why doesn't it bother some brethren on the Forum when STRANGERS do this to fellow brethren on the Forum?

16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
{Again - WHO is the WE? Are they just Bible school graduates? According to the Apostle Paul, WE have the mind of Christ, and it is the Lord that INSTRUCTS us - NOT MEN!}

If I am wrong about premio53's "premise" on this Thread - WHAT do you do about these verses that DIRECTLY ADDRESS this issue? According to the Apostle John - I have an "UNCTION from the Holy One" and I
"need NOT that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."According to the Apostle Paul - I have the mind of Christ, and I am to look to the Holy Spirit for instruction and understanding - NOT men!)

Now, am I promoting some CULT PHILOSOPHY as premio53 has intimated? "
Practically every cult I know of is guilty of that philosophy."
If I teach that knowing WHAT God SAYS (His very own "words") is far more important than than knowing what some men "THINK" His Holy words "MEAN" - does that make me some kind of "cult" leader? Hmmm?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman
Wow.
Bro George, I think you way overreacted there.
I have to agree with you Winman.
I'm sorry to say I am quickly losing respect for the patterns of some of the regulars here. It's getting a little silly with the demands for personal information and so forth, if anyone knows of other good KJV boards please let me know as I am growing weary of the lack of moderation here, and I wouldn't mind looking at other boards to see how they are run. The bashing is getting too common and it's getting more and more trivial. Nothing against anyone personally, just getting concerned over the way things are going here, it's too bad really.

And brother Parrish and Winman, - HOW do you "propose" we should treat every "kook", "crackpot", and "crazy" that shows up on this Board? Hmmm? Do we extend the right hand of fellowship to every "stranger" that shows up on the AV1611 Bible Forums regardless of the fact that we know nothing about them? Do we just ASSUME that they are "brethren"?

And when they INSULT or CRITICIZE a known brother in Christ, do we just give them "A PASS"? Is it "TRIVIAL" when prmio53 "intimates" that WHAT I am teaching is much the same as a "CULT PHILOSOPHY" ? (premio53 said: "How many times have you heard someone piously state that he cares not what a verse or word means but what it says? Practically every cult I know of is guilty of that philosophy."
WHO do you "think" premio53 was talking about? Hmmm?) Do you just "OVERLOOK" the "SUBTIL SUGGESTION" that WHAT I teach is "FALSE" and that I am GUILTY of the SAME PHILOSOPHY of "practically every "CULT"? Do you consider that "TRIVIAL"? Or did you MISS that "accusation"? Hmmm?

In the last few weeks we have had an OVERLOAD of TROUBLEMAKERS join this Forum - just how long do you "propose" we let them "disrupt" this Forum? Are we to tolerate "division", "chaos" and "ANARCHY"? And where would the "edification" be in that?

Do you think that it is proper etiquette or common courtesy for a STRANGER to come to this Forum and INSULT and CRITICIZE brother Chette, and then INTIMATE that WHAT I TEACH is NO DIFFERENT than "every cult philosophy"? If that is "TRIVIAL" - just exactly WHERE would you draw the line?

Premio53 (a STRANGER) has caused
controversy, dissension, discord, and division - and it's my fault? I didn't INVITE him here. We have NO IDEA WHO HE IS or WHAT he believes (other than the fact that he holds a lot of personal opinions and privately interprets the Scriptures).

If STRANGERS are allowed to CRITICIZE, INSULT, and "CHALLENGE" any established member, or anything that an established member Posts there will be NO EDIFICATION taking place and NO PROFIT to the Forum itself.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 

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