Bible Studies Post and discuss short Bible studies.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:20 AM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

Hi Chette, I'm back.

I don't believe brothers in Christ should argue or debate, so that is not why I keep coming back to this thread. I sincerely believe the Gap Theory is an error.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It is very difficult for a Gap theorist to get around this very simple and straightforward verse of scripture. And this was what God wrote on the Ten Commandments with his very finger! This verse says heaven (Gen 1:1) was included in the six day creation, and all that in them is. So this would include Satan and the angels.

You cannot add any days between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 because then the creation account would be longer than six days. In fact, according to most Gap theorists, the gap could have been thousands, millions, or even billions of years.

The Gap Theory was invented because the Church allowed science to intimidate it. All these falsely "so called" scientists were telling everybody the world and all life evolved over billions of years. So some in the Church tried to reconcile the Bible with science. We should never do that. The Bible is true no matter what science claims. And sooner or later true science (which exists) will come around and agree with the Bible. That has happened many times. Today, even evolutionists are admitting there is much evidence for a young earth. They can't deny it, there is too much real evidence.

Now, when you go around telling everybody there was a great gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, you are in effect calling God a liar. That may sound harsh, but what else could you call it? So, think about that.

The Gap Theory says there was death before Adam. But the Bible says sin entered the world by Adam. And death by this sin.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


OK, the Bible says sin entered the world by a man, not an angel. Vs. 14 says death reigned from Adam to Moses, but if the Gap Theory is correct, then death reigned well before Adam was created until Moses.

The Bible says Adam was the first man.

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


The Gap Theory claims there were some sort of hybrid angelic men on the earth. They certainly had to be mortal men if God destroyed them by making the earth "without form and void" as your theory demands. Destroying the world would have no effect on angels or Satan. And we know Satan is still around today and will be to the end. So, destroying the earth had no effect on him or the other angels.

So, if there were mortal men on the earth between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, then 1 Cor 15:45 is false.

This is just the beginning, I could go on and on. Don't you see how contrary to the scriptures this theory is?

Six day creationists do not have to twist the scriptures, it is simple and staightforward. It doesn't contradict many other verses in the Bible the way the Gap theory does.

I would think seriously think about this theory. I wouldn't listen to what other men say, listen to what the scriptures say.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #102  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:01 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

I have Italicized your quotes and given my answers respectfully

I don't believe brothers in Christ should argue or debate, so that is not why I keep coming back to this thread. I sincerely believe the Gap Theory is an error.

You may believe what ever you want

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It is very difficult for a Gap theorist to get around this very simple and straightforward verse of scripture. And this was what God wrote on the Ten Commandments with his very finger! This verse says heaven (Gen 1:1) was included in the six day creation, and all that in them is. So this would include Satan and the angels.

I am not sure where you get the idea God wrote anything more than the commandments on the table of stones. Genesis is a history inspired by him and penned by Moses during the wilderness travels. God never wrote history on the tablets only commandments. But this is a good example of how people make statements with no Biblical backing and then cover them over in glossy words to hide the fact that their statement is not true to the word of God. People get fooled by that everyday when following men.

The problem for the no gap is that is inconstant with God character as he had revealed all that pertained to this current 24/7 earth . You have God revealing everything he created in the 6 days event except Lucifer and the Angels. Everything that has been created at the 6 day creation was revealed in detail and restated in part in chapter two. Why doesn't god bring forth his creature Lucifer and get a name for him? I showed that angelic beings were alive before the earth was created and he hung it in the heaven.

You cannot add any days between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 because then the creation account would be longer than six days. In fact, according to most Gap theorists, the gap could have been thousands, millions, or even billions of years.

I have never added any days between Gen1:1 and 1:2 nor do I hold to current evolutionary views (stated before) of any millions of billions 24/7 years. I believe that eternity was the time measurement God exists and operates in before Gen 1:3.

The Gap Theory was invented because the Church allowed science to intimidate it. All these falsely "so called" scientists were telling everybody the world and all life evolved over billions of years. So some in the Church tried to reconcile the Bible with science. We should never do that. The Bible is true no matter what science claims. And sooner or later true science (which exists) will come around and agree with the Bible. That has happened many times. Today, even evolutionists are admitting there is much evidence for a young earth. They can't deny it, there is too much real evidence.

You need to do more research. there is evidence in Jewish history that the Gap theory went back before the time of Christ. I will find you a link to that info and read it objectively make no conclusions before starting save that for afterwards.

Now, when you go around telling everybody there was a great gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, you are in effect calling God a liar. That may sound harsh, but what else could you call it? So, think about that.

Again I only stated that there is eternity between Gen1:1 and 1:2. not a great gap of 24/7 365 day years. That is another fellow not I.

The Gap Theory says there was death before Adam. But the Bible says sin entered the world by Adam. And death by this sin.

I have never said there was death before Gen 3 nor even before Gen1:2. I do believe there was a destruction and desolation before that on the earth that left it without form and void Gen1:2 and Jer4:23 is how I established that meaning.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


OK, the Bible says sin entered the world by a man, not an angel. Vs. 14 says death reigned from Adam to Moses, but if the Gap Theory is correct, then death reigned well before Adam was created until Moses.

The Bible says Adam was the first man.


1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The Gap Theory claims there were some sort of hybrid angelic men on the earth. They certainly had to be mortal men if God destroyed them by making the earth "without form and void" as your theory demands. Destroying the world would have no effect on angels or Satan. And we know Satan is still around today and will be to the end. So, destroying the earth had no effect on him or the other angels.

So, if there were mortal men on the earth between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, then 1 Cor 15:45 is false.

I never disagreed with the fact that Adam brought in sin unto the 24/7 time Quantum world of man. I never said Lucifer brought in sin into this world at any time in any of my statements.

I never said there were any pre adamic life forms on the earth in eternity prior to Gen. 1:2 - 31 accounts. that was some one else's theory. there are at least Six gap theory's and only on no Gap. you will have to study them all and keep them separated.

I do not believe Lucifer created any life forms because that would make him equal to God. And only God can give life. Plants are not living beings like animals or man. 1Cor 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. never is the word flesh used concerning plants.

I never said that God killed brought death to angels. That is another person with another theorum said that. you are confusing us with them.

This is just the beginning, I could go on and on. Don't you see how contrary to the scriptures this theory is?

yeah, I am sure you can

Six day creationists do not have to twist the scriptures, it is simple and staightforward. It doesn't contradict many other verses in the Bible the way the Gap theory does.

I never said you had too nor have I. and I have said I agree 99% with he facts of the 6 day creation as being true except of the creation of Lucifer and the other Angelic beings.

I would think seriously think about this theory. I wouldn't listen to what other men say, listen to what the scriptures say.

I have been studying this on my own. I have and still am reading material from Kent Hivn, James Morris, John Morris, Gaines Johnson, Ole Madsen Just to name a few. they all have tons of reference material to research and many unanswered questions.

There are some difficult with Hovin and Morris no gap that go unanswered and when they do answer they answer from silent (twisting the clear word of God to fit their view). so you see I have and I am doing my home work. my thesis on a non preadamic life and evolution Gap theory is far from completed.

I have developed a theory that is Biblically sound to the purpose of Gods word by what He has revealed. I tackle verse that are not explained in the Bible and it is clear the reason they are not is because they did not take place in our current 24/7 time measurement that God created after Gen 1:2.

please I am not the regular run of the mill Gap theorist you have lumped my into. you have placed a lot of material on my shoulders of which I have never personally espoused. I hold to a view that is biblical and reconciles the the Gap and the 6 day creation as being true, with out death of a pre adamic race or death of any kind.

Last edited by chette777; 03-07-2009 at 06:11 PM.
  #103  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:40 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

That is a silly and non-sensical argument. You are actually arguing now that God didn't know what He was doing when he wrote the scriptures, because he didn't include details of Satan and the fallen angels in the six day creation account.

Well, first of all, as has been pointed out several times, Satan had not rebelled (or the fallen angels) in the six day creation. When God had finished creation, he declared it all "very good" in Gen 1:31. In Gen 2:1 God said the heavens and earth were finished, and ALL THE HOST OF THEM. So there is God's mention of the angelic beings.

To show you how silly your argument is, think of the Earth. Earth is but a tiny planet orbiting a normal sized star in a normal sized galaxy. Astronomers have been able to look out in space and have seen literally billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars. And that is what we know now, you can bet as better telescopes are invented they will discover billions of more galaxies with billions of stars each.

So, the Earth is like a single grain of sand on a gigantic beach. We are nothing. But God goes into great detail about the Earth.

But what does God say about these trillions and trillions of stars? Read for yourself.

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Now look at that. The universe is far greater with the trillions and trillions of stars than our little planet, but all God says about them is "he made the stars also"

I think you should let God decide what he wants to go into detail about, and that which he doesn't.

And you are completely disregarding Exodus 20:11. God may have been telling history there, and he was telling of how he created the heaven, the earth, the seas, and all that are in them in SIX DAYS.

I am not going to keep arguing with you, but you need to start listening to God's Word instead of some false teacher who does not believe the Bible.
  #104  
Old 03-07-2009, 10:28 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

no you awere being silly in saying God wrote all of Genesis One on tablets of stone. When only the commandments and statues as found Exodus were written on the stones.

Here are your exact words implying God wrote about Gen 6 day creation with the Ten commandments. with his very finger on stone

It is very difficult for a Gap theorist to get around this very simple and straightforward verse of scripture. And this was what God wrote on the Ten Commandments with his very finger! This verse says heaven (Gen 1:1) was included in the six day creation, and all that in them is. So this would include Satan and the angels.

no scripture supports that God wrote about the 6 day creation can be found anywhere so yur statment is in error. that is what i was speakig about.

You show me by one Bible verse when Satan fell? if after the 6 day creation it should be recorded in scripture for everything that happened is recorded in Scripture. and that is going against God's character as to revelation of all that He created from day one to 6 and afterwards is ina 24/7 TQ of revelatin from Gen 1:3-31 to date

there is no revelation of Lucifer or angelic beings being created because they were not created during the 6 day creation. you claim he was and our claim he was is from silence.

your claim all he had made was very good. that only applies to everthing after the 24/7 TQ which was first created on day one Ge.1:3-5. not to those things before Gen1:3.

Enough for me already of this Bible Boxing it is tiring
  #105  
Old 03-08-2009, 01:04 AM
stephanos's Avatar
stephanos stephanos is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wenatchee WA
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Hi Chette, I'm back.

I don't believe brothers in Christ should argue or debate, so that is not why I keep coming back to this thread. I sincerely believe the Gap Theory is an error.
I'm with you on this. I've heard enough Gappers talk to be thoroughly convinced that it is an error.

Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #106  
Old 03-08-2009, 02:12 AM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

You assume that all gap theory's are alike. and until you study them out and the errors of Morris and Hovin. you will not fully understand the issues of a gap.

But you are all welcome to believe what ever you like over this issue it is truly non essential to ones salvation.
  #107  
Old 03-08-2009, 05:37 AM
stephanos's Avatar
stephanos stephanos is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wenatchee WA
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
You assume that all gap theory's are alike. and until you study them out and the errors of Morris and Hovin. you will not fully understand the issues of a gap.

But you are all welcome to believe what ever you like over this issue it is truly non essential to ones salvation.
The only Gap theories I've actually looked into is the Non-Evolutionary Gap Theory which you push, and the original founded in the 17th and 18th centuries by Thomas Chalmers (18th) and Simon Episcopius (17th) and then furthered even more by William Buckland, Sharon Turner and Edward Hitchcock of Oxford University. All comprimisers who tried to fit evolution into the Genesis account.

Nevertheless, all of these theories are major stretches and are not a natural response born again Christians have to reading the Scriptures. No one, who reads the Bible cover to cover will come to your Non-Evolutionary Gap Theories conclusions without being taught to make it fit into what they originally read within Scriptures. This alone is enough to make me go hmm...

Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #108  
Old 03-08-2009, 06:20 AM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

well it is not the same as Geologists or the secular humanist Roman Catholic.

I have read so much stuff from I think all who do or don't support a Gap it is mind boggling. the amounts of info on both sides I have read and am still going through.

in between classes at the Bible college, Sunday and Wednesday services, bible studies, and now I am getting ready for a weekly Addicts meeting. and on top of reading 30 plus books in the last year on a host of Biblical subject and theology, and the new heresy's out there.

here is a link so you can read some study's done on the antiquity of the Gap view in the early church and in Judaism. the link will start you into further links to different studies. I want to emphasize I do not agree with all that this site promotes as to a gap. http://www.creationdays.dk/critique/Thomas_Chalmers.php

to God be the Glory

RememberCharles Hadden Spurgeon said, " A man who doesn't borrow from the brains of other men proves he has no brains"

Last edited by chette777; 03-08-2009 at 06:26 AM.
  #109  
Old 03-08-2009, 08:07 AM
geologist's Avatar
geologist geologist is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Geologist view goes deep and wide into the great halls of Scholarship. that is where I begin to doubt some of the conclusions his supported materials mention such as different versions of old Testament books, Sumerian tablets, ancient cosmologies of long gone dynasties of men (based on archeology). it all gets bogged down in scholarship.
In my study of the King James Bible's authority and arguments pro and con, and concerning the Ruin-Reconstruction interpretation, I had to study manuscript evidence and a lot of other people's writings, arguments, etc. Yes, I have gone deep and wide into the halls of scholarship, but not to embrace it as an authority.

There is an old Russian proverb to the effect that it is wise to learn the language and ways of your enemy.
  #110  
Old 03-08-2009, 09:24 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

yes, Geo you have done your home work. it is a great blessing to me. But Larkin's does the same but came to some great errors in his view.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:45 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com