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  #111  
Old 07-30-2009, 03:59 PM
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Amanda S. Amanda S. is offline
 
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Ha! You know Brother Paul I still don't know what that word means!?

I guess I should look it up...

Any suggestions on which dictionary I should use to look it up?
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  #112  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:48 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Jassy's

Jassy's(I added the bolding and color and font size.)



Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a man with more than one wife to enter into the kingdom of God.

Brandon, please don't ban me for Bible correcting...

Jesus didn't say that! Jesus said:

Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Sis Jen,

Forgive me if I don't quite understand the point of your post. Were you correcting me? Supporting me? Or??? Not sure that I understand. Sorry about that. Can you help clarify the reason for your post, sis?

Thanks!
Jassy
  #113  
Old 07-30-2009, 05:10 PM
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Sister Jassy,



Sister, I was struck by the use of these words. We all pass judgment every day on many things...it's in our nature. We can't help it. When a decision is made on any topic a judgment is being made. Now if you are suggesting by passing judgment we shove aside, I honestly don't think ANYone on here at least has suggested ANYone be shoved aside?

And if we are not to "shun or shove aside or pass judgment" on those without the faith shouldn't we even more so treat our brethren the same way?

Because one judges that an act is a sin based on the Bible, and we teach it as such how is that shoving aside a brother? Are men not to preach sin for fear of passing judgment? For fear of ostracizing a brother? If my pastor or husband preaches on being unfruitful and I am convicted I am not shunned. My pastor can teach right and wrong and I still have the free will to ignore it. It still doesn't change right and wrong.

I have seen these comments across the forum and don't understand how making a judgment based on Scripture equals shunning?

Please, I welcome you to explain it to me.
Sis Amanda,

I think there is a huge difference between JUDGING and DISCERNING. The Lord Jesus Christ is going to be judging us according to Paul's gospel:

Romans 2:16 - In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my [Paul's] gospel.

We are not called upon to be a judge. But those that are spiritually strong, should have the ability to DISCERN, using the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 5:14 - But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


We are supposed to judge THINGS - to see if they are spiritual (from God's Word) but not PEOPLE.

According to the Bible, Satan is the "god of this world" - so we do need to be able to judge between BELIEF and UNBELIEF, yes.

I may be wrong about this. And if we are to sit in judgment of other people, here and now in the church - I don't want to be in that position.

Jassy
  #114  
Old 07-30-2009, 05:15 PM
custer custer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
Ha! You know Brother Paul I still don't know what that word means!?

I guess I should look it up...

Any suggestions on which dictionary I should use to look it up?
Too funny!!! If you're referring to "sophist," I had to look it up too! (I'll give you a hint: it wasn't a compliment!!!)

Back on subject, though, will someone PLEASE expound I Corinthians 7:27-28? I just want to know why the man in that passage is committing adultery when he remarries if the Bible says he has not sinned!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
  #115  
Old 07-30-2009, 06:07 PM
custer custer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
Sis Amanda,

I think there is a huge difference between JUDGING and DISCERNING. The Lord Jesus Christ is going to be judging us according to Paul's gospel:

Romans 2:16 - In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my [Paul's] gospel.

We are not called upon to be a judge. But those that are spiritually strong, should have the ability to DISCERN, using the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 5:14 - But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


We are supposed to judge THINGS - to see if they are spiritual (from God's Word) but not PEOPLE.

According to the Bible, Satan is the "god of this world" - so we do need to be able to judge between BELIEF and UNBELIEF, yes.

I may be wrong about this. And if we are to sit in judgment of other people, here and now in the church - I don't want to be in that position.

Jassy
I Corinthians 5:1-13 and 6:1-5 and 10:15 and 14:24-25

In I Cor. 2, where you quoted verse 14, "discerned" is clarified in verse 15 as "judgeth."

Compare "discern" and "judge" in Gen. 31:32 and 31:37. The two words are also together in I Kings 3:9, where "judge" is again defined as "discern." (and in verse 11, we find "to discern judgment.")

There's a plain definition for "discern" in Ezekiel 44:23, and it is right there (again) connected with the words "judgment," "judge," and "judgments" in verse 24. There is another connection in Luke 12:56-57.

I've been fussed on for my use of some words on this forum and challenged to define words scripturally...so my concordance has been getting a lot more use lately! I am having way too much FUN with it!!!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
  #116  
Old 07-30-2009, 06:14 PM
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PaulB PaulB is offline
 
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Default Juding people

1 Cor.11:31 "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."

I don't see myself as a thing! I am a person!

No, but seriously!

Judging people is very necessary for their own good - if it is done from a pure heart with the intent of restoring someone.

Mt.7:1-5 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye

Our Lord id obvioulsly telling people to "Judge correctly" rather than hypocritically - He is not warning to cease from judging, but doing so with a pure heart.

God bless

PaulB
  #117  
Old 07-30-2009, 06:16 PM
CKG CKG is offline
 
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Hi Amanda (My fellow Sophist!!!!!!!!)

I also see things very black and white the trouble is that there are some who have a great deal of difficulty seeing things through my eyes (probably because I approach things from the plain meaning of Scripture rather than using C.I. Scofield’s notes as my rule of faith!)

Keep your head held high you’re doing us all proud!

God bless

PaulB
Interesting quote. The very basis for dispensationalism is:

1. You must hold to a literal interpretation of God’s Word.
2. You must carefully examine who God is addressing.
3. You must always place Scripture in its proper context.


http://www.preservedwords.com/dispen1a.htm

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/jmacdis.htm

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/sermon.htm

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/dispen.htm

http://www.biblebelievers.com/BlueDISP.html

http://withchrist.org/mjs/gospels.htm
  #118  
Old 07-30-2009, 07:14 PM
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Amanda S. Amanda S. is offline
 
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I Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


Sister Jassy,

I understand what you are trying to say, but judge is the word the Bible uses...Not discern. It sounds nicer though doesn't it!?

Perhaps, we have a wrong picture of what it means to judge a brother....? The Bible gives us guidelines...Matthew 18:15, I Cor 4:1-5. It really all boils down to our heart attitude. When my children do wrong and I have to discipline them, I am not gleeful, gloating, self-righteous or any such. Out of LOVE I have to discipline them. Same type of situation here. I have seen this happen a time or 2 in my life and in my experience there are tears on both sides and it a SAD thing...But PTL the sin is dealt with and often a brother is restored to fellowship.

We are not to condemn them, "sit in judgment" or any other such word.

Consider these passages where people are actually judged and their sin dealt with...One cannot deal with the sin w/ out the sinner...

I Cor 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.



Paul here is telling those Christians in the church to judge the believers in their assembly if they are involved in the sins that are listed here, sins that are commonly reported...Paul has already dealt with this before and rather than heeding his words here they are puffed up and proud that the man is still in their midst, perhaps hoping to "love" him out of his sin. Obviously that is not what Paul told them to do. He told them to put him away mourning not self-righteously, holier than thou...but with a spirit of compassion that he would repent.

I honestly think that if you were to consider the heart attitude, the sin being dealt with and the effect of that sin on the body of believers, the effect of that sin on the man himself that you would see why a judgment needs to be made...If you want to use the word discern then I've no problem with that but the Bible does use judge...But discern doesn't bring to mind any action behind it...making a judgment puts action on the discernment if you will.

Now ideally we should catch these sins in ourselves...Consider this:

I Cor 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.


I hope I've been able to explain this correctly
  #119  
Old 07-30-2009, 08:04 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
I Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


Sister Jassy,

I understand what you are trying to say, but judge is the word the Bible uses...Not discern. It sounds nicer though doesn't it!?

Perhaps, we have a wrong picture of what it means to judge a brother....? The Bible gives us guidelines...Matthew 18:15, I Cor 4:1-5. It really all boils down to our heart attitude. When my children do wrong and I have to discipline them, I am not gleeful, gloating, self-righteous or any such. Out of LOVE I have to discipline them. Same type of situation here. I have seen this happen a time or 2 in my life and in my experience there are tears on both sides and it a SAD thing...But PTL the sin is dealt with and often a brother is restored to fellowship.

We are not to condemn them, "sit in judgment" or any other such word.

Consider these passages where people are actually judged and their sin dealt with...One cannot deal with the sin w/ out the sinner...

I Cor 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.



Paul here is telling those Christians in the church to judge the believers in their assembly if they are involved in the sins that are listed here, sins that are commonly reported...Paul has already dealt with this before and rather than heeding his words here they are puffed up and proud that the man is still in their midst, perhaps hoping to "love" him out of his sin. Obviously that is not what Paul told them to do. He told them to put him away mourning not self-righteously, holier than thou...but with a spirit of compassion that he would repent.

I honestly think that if you were to consider the heart attitude, the sin being dealt with and the effect of that sin on the body of believers, the effect of that sin on the man himself that you would see why a judgment needs to be made...If you want to use the word discern then I've no problem with that but the Bible does use judge...But discern doesn't bring to mind any action behind it...making a judgment puts action on the discernment if you will.

Now ideally we should catch these sins in ourselves...Consider this:

I Cor 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.


I hope I've been able to explain this correctly
Quote:
Now ideally we should catch these sins in ourselves...Consider this:

I Cor 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

I hope I've been able to explain this correctly
There we go. Enough rope. Permanent banishment?

Oh, wait! Amanda wasn't insinuating anything because we know she would never do that.
  #120  
Old 07-30-2009, 08:22 PM
Renee Renee is offline
 
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Amanda,

This one I cannot keep my mouth shut on. You should have quoted all of the verses below not just from verse 30


1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

1 Corinthians 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


1 Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1 Corinthians 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

1 Corinthians 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.


As you can see, here we are speaking of The Lord's Supper. When we eat unworthily The Lord judges us as only He knows our hearts. Ye also judge yourself for you know your own heart.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

There is only one way to judge righteously. By the Book! God has given some more wisdom, discernment and understanding then others. I'm simple, these three previous things I covet. I do not desire knowledge as some do for knowledge tends to puff up people and is only for the brain.

I am blessed that I have an Elder/Husband to ask questions of at home and do not have to bring unlearned and foolish questions that gender strife to this
forum. The wife of an Elder should render him due honor so the Church by her example can believe that the Words he brings forth are truth.

Well I think that was three cents worth this time. Say what you may, that is all I have

Renee
 

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