[Renee]

Hi sister Jassy,

Sorry I beat you to the punch. It really bugs me when someone twist and wrest the scriptures. I read a lot of the post that are posted. I find that a lot of post in some threads I prefer to be quiet on, infact I ignore whole threads after reading the first few post. I do have this thing though, when I see that George or Brandon has posted I do go check it out.

There is much wisdom and discernment and understanding in both yours and Greenbear's post and I preceive that behind the post is a meek and quiet spirit.

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

May The Lord bless you,

Renee

Looks like this thread has morphed again!

[greenbear]

Renee and Jassy,

I pray the Lord to give me a meek and quiet spirit. I have a zeal for the truth but in this I am lacking. I still respond carnally at times. I thank God for your and JaeByrd's "ensamples".

Jen

[greenbear]

Sis Jassy,

And one more thing. You are NOT allowed to start any more threads!

[PaulB]

How is it possible (whether indirectly or directly) for one to label another a “Pharisee”, a “Sophist” or someone who has a “problem with the Bible” without judging someone?

Verses like Mt.7:1 are addressing exactly what is happening on this forum (i.e. coming down on those who feel like they have the moral high ground, when it is fact they who are in the wrong!)

Not only that, but some people on this forum are so quick to pounce on the case of a select few newcomers and are guilty of doing the very things that they are criticising others for.
To come down on another by applying the verse “judge not” is an act of judging in itself!

God bless

PaulB

[Amanda S.]

Bro. Paul,

As suggested by Jennifer I have gone back and looked at the thread I started and the threads I have posted in...And I'm sure from her point of view that I am full of hate and malice. It matters not that I mostly involved myself in topics that were current. It also matters not that she was involved in most every conversation I was, but alas she does have the duty to correct my Gospel of Hate. Nor does it matter that I strived to stay in the context. Nor does it matter that I FULLY admitted that the Christian is NOT commanded to hate anyone, that any judgment to be made in church is to be righteous in their judgments not with malice but mourning.

One of the reasons I was excited in joining was to reason through this idea of God "Hates the sin, not the sinner" as it was a point of contention between several people on my FB that very week.

After looking over my posts I can clearly see a continual disagreement running through most of the threads. It is the idea of authority. The very idea that a man, men, elders have any right to address sin and deal with it for the good of the church really rubs people wrong. But the concept is not as foreign as one would like to suggest...Government, police officers etc make laws, give tickets (judgment) because they hate the law breaker....!? No, but for the good of the community....Hopefully because they care for the well-being of yourself.

Perhaps because I've been blessed to be associated with wonderful churches and leadership I have little understanding of their point of view. I would not want to be a church member in a church where I didn't think the pastor wasn't looking out for my well-being and the well-being of the other Christians. If I was involved in a sin that was going to bring down the wrath of God on me or the body of believers I should hope someone would say something to me! But again, I've no experience in this being handled wrongly....The occasions I have known, the sin was privately addressed and there was no putting away or occasion for "stone throwing" as some would like to say. But rather tears and heartache and joy when the sin was repented of and addressed...(in this particular case it was fornication at the age of 16 with a resulting pregnancy).

I said all that to say...I can see where they are coming from. And we will probably continue to have this disagreement and differing of views as I view a lot of topics and Christian living and service through a leadership's (my husband) and church member's eyes. I would dare say that a missionary, evangelist, street preacher, nursing home minister etc would view a lot of topics with the situations they are acquainted with on a daily basis.

Be blessed Bro. Paul!

[PaulB]

Hi Amanda! I agree with what you are saying and as you know I relate to your position and the way in which you are addressing the issues. I can't see what you have said wrong in any way on this forum, and certainly not with the any malice intended.

The trouble is, when we innocently enter into forums on the world wide web we can be answering honest questions that people are hungry to know the answers to, but at the same time we can be stepping on toes.

Our answers come from our convictions. and our convictions come because we care about people and truth. I am discovering very quickly that there are some who are more interested in defending the theological camp that they belong to rather than having the heart to seek to understand the intentions or theology of one or two certain newcomers!

God bless you Amanda

PaulB

[CKG]

Originally Posted by PaulB

I am discovering very quickly that there are some who are more interested in defending the theological camp that they belong to rather than having the heart to seek to understand the intentions or theology of one or two certain newcomers!

God bless you Amanda

PaulB

Paul

You're not helping matters any with statements like ""probably because I approach things from the plain meaning of Scripture rather than using C.I. Scofield’s notes". You're insinuating that those who are dispensational don't approach things from the plain meaning of Scripture and that all dispensationalists can't study the Bible without the aid of Scofield's notes, not to mention when you look at "Ask Mr. Religion"'s statement of faith which he posted to this forum there is a book advertised that attacks dispensationalism.

[Jassy]

Originally Posted by greenbear

Sis Jassy,

And one more thing. You are NOT allowed to start any more threads!

Sis Jennifer,

Point taken!! I'm resting a bit from my thread posting.

Jassy

[Amanda S.]

Sis. Renee said: This one I cannot keep my mouth shut on. You should have quoted all of the verses below not just from verse 30.......It really bugs me when someone twist and wrest the scriptures........As you can see, here we are speaking of The Lord's Supper. When we eat unworthily The Lord judges us as only He knows our hearts. Ye also judge yourself for you know your own heart.............

Because I said:

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


Paul here is telling those Christians in the church to judge the believers in their assembly if they are involved in the sins that are listed here, sins that are commonly reported...Paul has already dealt with this before and rather than heeding his words here they are puffed up and proud that the man is still in their midst, perhaps hoping to "love" him out of his sin. Obviously that is not what Paul told them to do. He told them to put him away mourning not self-righteously, holier than thou...but with a spirit of compassion that he would repent.

I honestly think that if you were to consider the heart attitude, the sin being dealt with and the effect of that sin on the body of believers, the effect of that sin on the man himself that you would see why a judgment needs to be made...If you want to use the word discern then I've no problem with that but the Bible does use judge...But discern doesn't bring to mind any action behind it...making a judgment puts action on the discernment if you will.

Now ideally we should catch these sins in ourselves...Consider this:

I Cor 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

To which I clearly explained myself:

Amen sister! Only the Lord can judge our hearts...Before the Lord's Supper one is to examine his heart for any unconfessed sins. If you take the Lord's Supper unworthily and push aside that sin you will be calling God's judgment upon you and you make the church weak, sickly and sleep among you. The context here is the church. If there are people that are bringing God's judgment down on themselves by keeping their sins unconfessed then it WILL have an effect on the whole church.

I guess I didn't make myself clear...If we were to examine our hearts and confess our sins and repent, it would never get to the point of the gross sin mentioned I Cor. 5.
There would not be widely reported fornication or covetousness needing dealt with.
Also, another application to this Scripture is if we would all focus on our own hearts and not glaring around the church at all the people we think have problems then would there be no opportunity for "church discipline" so to speak.

Thank you sister! Great point!

I was just wondering Sis. Renee. Are you still accusing me of twisting and wresting the Bible in this instance????

[Jassy]

Originally Posted by greenbear

Renee and Jassy,

I pray the Lord to give me a meek and quiet spirit. I have a zeal for the truth but in this I am lacking. I still respond carnally at times. I thank God for your and JaeByrd's "ensamples".

Jen

Sis Jennifer,

Welcome to the club of meek and quiet spirits, who sometimes are a bit "hot-headed"! You can read my post to sis Renee for more info on the background of how I got from point A to point B. However, I caution you that I don't recommend going deaf! LOL

Isn't it wonderful that we have such "ensamples"? I am very thankful to the Lord for them.

You have a wonderful spirit Jennifer. I've seen that, in your communications with me and others, when you feel you've been wrong, you will humbly apologize - even if I haven't seen where you've been wrong. That has been a great "ensample" for me, sis.

Jassy