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  #11  
Old 07-16-2009, 03:23 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by PaulB View Post
The way that I look at it is that music is a form of accompaniment and worship is the expressed revelation of the glory of God from the soul. When the two are in harmony together it is the most beautiful expression of spiritual light that can be witnessed on this side of eternity.

A lot of what is happening today in church services is nothing other than religious entertainment – I played the clubs for around 20 years (before I was a Christian) and believe me there is hardly any difference (solo breaks, loud and overpowering sound systems and all followed with applause).

The music what used to be preached against is now endorsed as the “what worship is all about” – today there is more spent on that particular “ministry” than almost anything else. The word used to dominate the conscience – now it seems to be the beat, the jive and the latest release.

Not only that – but the “worship” has exchanged spiritual revelation for emotional sentimentalism where light and fluffy words of romance have replaced the doctrinal truths that express the Scriptural the position that God has over us – rather than the buddy/lover who can’t manage without me!

You are right in recognising something in the Hymns, as these do tend to reflect a time in history where the people that wrote them knew their God in a ways that still speaks volumes. I often think that modern worship is being used in way where people are trying to summons God!
I have experienced jazzy services where the music has been so entertaining that at the end of it (whilst all are still buzzing) the pastor has said “Oh what a wonderful sense of the presence of the Holy Spirit”.
After which I have often thought to myself; that if the Holy Spirit were truly amongst us then the evidence of that would be far different than what it would be if I had just heard the last waltz.
I’m sure that He would have something to say about the couples in here who are living with people whom they ought not to be with and doing the things so openly that they should be ashamed of.

For me spiritual truth hits the heart and the songs that we sing are the expressions of that. The reason for the change today is like it is with everything else – they are board with what we have always had and they want to have a church that they can redesign, patent & enjoy.

I can’t imagine a collective people trying to sing some of these mushy love songs when the church enters into perilous times – as our forefathers did with the hymns that they knew to be true when they were often tested.

God bless

PaulB
Brother PaulB,

Some excellent points that you make! You're right that much of the music in church is more like ENTERTAINMENT - it isn't really glorifying God. And yes! The focus is on the INDIVIDUAL - what THEY do. That's horrifying! The focus ought to be on the LORD and what He has DONE! When I see performers, who claim to be Christians, swaying and "getting lost" in the music - I don't see it glorifying the Lord, nor edifying Christians. Like any performer, they undoubtedly LOVE the APPLAUSE! Like any rock stars, they no doubt get a "rush" being on stage and hearing that applause. What are we honoring and glorifying HUMANS for? Where is the glory to the Lord in that? I just don't see it - nor do I FEEL it. What I feel, from modern Christian rock or rap, is UNHOLY. Even though I can't hear, my gut instinct tells me that this music is anything BUT holy.

I wonder how much of the money earned by popular Christian music "stars" goes for the "great commission" - or do they consider their performance as being the "great commission"? Like any rock stars, they have a following, and I've watched performances of these popular Christian "rock" stars on TV, and have seen people in the audience swaying with their hands raised and their eyes closed, almost in a trance-like state, just into THEMSELVES and the FEELINGS that they have. It's the same FEELINGS that any rock music conjures up... nothing different about it.

Yes, it's emotional sentamentalism. That is the reason for the popularity of rock or pop music. And it's the same emotional sentimentalism that I see in the followers of such music. Using "love songs" and singing them to the LORD is so off-base! It makes it seem like they are in love with LOVE, and the feeling that that elicits, rather than HAVING LOVE for the LORD.

I'm still happy that I am deaf, in today's world. The Lord God has his reasons for ALLOWING certain things to occur. My deafness had a purpose. It wasn't caused by SIN... but it was allowed to bring me CLOSER to the Lord and to give me the ability to hear his still, small voice. Amidst the din of today's music, it's very difficult to hear the voice of God.

Jassy
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2009, 08:14 PM
Brother-Smith Brother-Smith is offline
 
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Hello All,

Thanks for the links and I will get around to checking them out this weekend while I am out of town playing.

I greatly appreciate the honest words and the subtle rebuke as related by a story shared by pbiwolski. This is nothing new to me and a struggle. No offense taken as I know none was intended.

A little more info, if you like.

There is no question in my mind as to what is behind music.
God created it and Satan corrupted. I have even seen it suggested that Lucifer was a chief musician before, but I can't remember how, why and where.

My concerns:

I am constantly being asked to play, be hired, etc. at churches to perform "worship" music. I have never felt the prompting of the spirit to get involved in this in anyways. My heart is right towards GOD, I just don't want to contribute to that in a house of the LORD.

Having said that I am a professional musician, that means I earn the income for my wife and I by performing music. I tour with a major instrumental band for a 2-3 months out of the year. I am the only Christian involved in that organization by a long shot. It is not the typical drudgery some might think about when they contemplate a touring group, but their are way more subtle issues. (like the serpent is subtle)
On the last tour I was given the chance to witness to probably around 15-20 people in a verbal manner. Many others through my daily walk. It is obvious that I am a "CHRISTIAN". Many don't like that, but they aren't in charge of the corporation. I know many of you probably know and enjoy the music.

Another group plays music from the 80's - today and works on the weekends when I am in town. It is not the worst situation I have been involved with in my career but it can be a drag sometimes. There is me, a Catholic, an emergent and a "former" christian who is now an evolutionist/biologist. God has been working in that circle I Believe.

I also teach privately and am very blessed with a full student load.

It is difficult to make a living in the music profession playing hymns.
I do not want to send my wife back into the work field. (We decided that she would stay at home and manage the castle when we got married. We are trying to honor GOD's plan for marriage by doing so. No offense to working ladies btw.)

The above stated facts and economy make it difficult to live. It is not about playing music for me, it is about surviving and providing for my home.

I can't at this time stop performing, send my wife into the work-field and sell everything, although I desire a change. That is why I pray for GOD to lead me in my musical endeavors and to SLAM doors shut where he doesn't want me. (blockhead's prayers) Believe me when I say that I don't go through every open door.



Say a little prayer for me.


Brother-Smith

Last edited by Brother-Smith; 07-16-2009 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Clarity. I should follow my own advice.
  #13  
Old 07-16-2009, 08:40 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Brother-Smith View Post
Hello All,

Thanks for the links and I will get around to checking them out this weekend while I am out of town playing.

I greatly appreciate the honest words and the subtle rebuke as related by a story shared by pbiwolski. This is nothing new to me and a struggle. No offense taken as I know none was intended.

A little more info, if you like.

There is no question in my mind as to what is behind music.
God created it and Satan corrupted. I have even seen it suggested that Lucifer was a chief musician before, but I can't remember how, why and where.

My concerns:

I am constantly being asked to play, be hired, etc. at churches to perform "worship" music. I have never felt the prompting of the spirit to get involved in this in anyways. My heart is right towards GOD, I just don't want to contribute to that in a house of the LORD.

Having said that I am a professional musician, that means I earn the income for my wife and I by performing music. I tour with a major instrumental band for a 2-3 months out of the year. I am the only Christian involved in that organization by a long shot. It is not the typical drudgery some might think about when they contemplate a touring group, but their are way more subtle issues. (like the serpent is subtle)
On the last tour I was given the chance to witness to probably around 15-20 people in a verbal manner. Many others through my daily walk. It is obvious that I am a "CHRISTIAN". Many don't like that, but they aren't in charge of the corporation. I know many of you probably know and enjoy the music.

Another group plays music from the 80's - today and works on the weekends when I am in town. It is not the worst situation I have been involved with in my career but it can be a drag sometimes. There is me, a Catholic, an emergent and a "former" christian who is now an evolutionist/biologist. God has been working in that circle I Believe.

I also teach privately and am very blessed with a full student load.

It is difficult to make a living in the music profession playing hymns.
I do not want to send my wife back into the work field. (We decided that she would stay at home and manage the castle when we got married. We are trying to honor GOD's plan for marriage by doing so. No offense to working ladies btw.)

The above stated facts and economy make it difficult to live. It is not about playing music for me, it is about surviving and providing for my home.

I can't at this time stop performing, send my wife into the work-field and sell everything, although I desire a change. That is why I pray for GOD to lead me in my musical endeavors and to SLAM doors shut where he doesn't want me. (blockhead's prayers) Believe me when I say that I don't go through every open door.



Say a little prayer for me.


Brother-Smith
Brother-Smith, I am not going to judge you. Sometimes the Lord will place people in certain situations that do NOT seem Christlike, expressly for the golden opportunity that they have to be witnesses for the faith. I think it's wonderful that you use those opportunities and that the people you work with realize that you're a Christian.

There are brothers here that witness and hand-out Bible tracts in some pretty seedy areas of town: outside of bars or strip joints, etc. Those are people that really need to hear about salvation by faith. There are none too sinful that the Lord cannot wash and save them with His Blood.

I am pleased that you are a believer and that you're using your testimony to witness to people in faith, wherever you find yourself. Some believers, like Paul, may end up in JAIL. Does that make them a criminal - because of the "digs" that they inhabit. Of course not!

It's difficult to make ends meet in these tough economic times. It is admirable that your wish is for your wife to remain at home. I don't know that it would be better for her to go out of the home and work, than for you to be a musician.

I've read that about Satan and music. Some people think that parts of Satan's body were made up of musical instruments! I do recall reading something about that, but don't recall where I read it - and they backed it up with various scriptures. But it was Satan's choice to use music for the wrong purposes and to turn something meant to be beautiful into something dischordant and ugly.

Brother, just pray for the will of God and He will lead you in the right path, as far as work goes.

Philippians 4:6 - "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God."

Jassy
  #14  
Old 07-16-2009, 09:43 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Brother-Smith,

It seems to me that what we think of as "christian" music is a cultural thing. I have countless christian music tapes and CD's that I bought thinking I should like them because I am a christian. I listened to them once and they did absolutely nothing for me so I put them in a drawer. They are like christian "muzak" (elevator music) to me. The "Christian" music that moves me the most is some of Bob Dylan's songs: What Can I Do For You, When He Returns, Saving Grace, I Believe In You and Pressing On. A few of Keith Green's songs, too(some written by his wife). Those are real to me and I am overcome with emotion in a good way like I have been in church before singing some of the great old hymns.

I think any one of us who goes out into the workplace is forced to make compromises in order to earn a living. My husband works for a cable company that has pornography channels. I worked for a drug company that sells drugs that I believe destroy people's minds, health and lives. I work for a corporation that sells kids and women's clothing some of which are ungodly.

Bob Dylan obviously got saved while he was a superstar. He touched a lot of people with his christian songs. As a new christian he wasn't grounded in the truth that he is saved by grace through faith alone and that he couldn't become "unsaved" by his conduct. He lost his way, he couldn't resist the piper's call and drifted back into service to the devil. In my view, there's no way that man isn't saved.


I would never say that all secular music is inherently evil. Musical and song writing ability come from God. These musicians who make a deal with the devil do it to gain money and fame, not to gain their talent. The devil offers them the riches of this world, in the same way that he offered them to Jesus.

I believe that it's the state of your heart that counts; does your conscience condemn you? If not, I believe you are without sin. If it does, then God will open another door for you.

Last edited by greenbear; 07-16-2009 at 09:55 PM.
  #15  
Old 07-17-2009, 06:54 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Brother-Smith,

I think any one of us who goes out into the workplace is forced to make compromises in order to earn a living. My husband works for a cable company that has pornography channels. I worked for a drug company that sells drugs that I believe destroy people's minds, health and lives. I work for a corporation that sells kids and women's clothing some of which are ungodly.
Sis Jen, you make a good point that I hadn't thought about. I used to be a professor and taught at universities and colleges - and those institutions are surely NOT godly. And neither are all of the students. So, we do have to be prepared to meet and "mingle with" a variety of people in the work place. We can't be in control of every aspect of the company or place that we work for or at. It just isn't possible. There may also be hidden aspects as well. For all we know, a boss that we don't have much contact with just might be a member of the Church of Satan. Who knows?

The entire educational system that I worked within is notorious for supporting evolution and being anti-Creationist.

Jassy
  #16  
Old 07-17-2009, 10:32 PM
Scott Swart Scott Swart is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Brother-Smith View Post
Hello everyone,

I have a question about worship music and psalms as used in the Word of God.
How is that to be applied in a local church.

The reason I ask is that I am a professional musician and a private tutor. The Lord has blessed me in many ways and I realize that my mission field is the people I come into contact with during the course of my day. (many students are getting the gospel when they come to guitar lessons, It just pops up.) However, when I attend a church service or listen to most "christian" music, it feels so fake and I don't seem to understand it. My Christian friends think something is wrong with me because I don't enjoy it. I love the OLD HYMNS from the hymnal. I like them because they have the "blood" and the "gospel" in them.

I am 37 years old and enjoy most styles of music. I enjoy the instrumental music most of all. Never have really listened to the lyrics of secular music much.

I have studied much on music in the word and also have seen the negative effects of music on people. Some even suggest that the emphasis on the back beat in Rock music is of the Devil, since it goes against the music that GOD has given to his creation. (bird songs, whale songs, etc.)

I am open to any help, words of guidance and scripture.

I can not stand contemporary worship music. It DRIVES ME NUTS and I am a musician. See my problem?


I guess I don't understand what roll music has in worship or the music I am hearing is not really glorifying to GOD.
If you really want to know what impact today's "worship" music has in the church, take it away for a month, and see how many people are still in the building.
  #17  
Old 07-18-2009, 04:47 AM
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PaulB PaulB is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Scott Swart View Post
If you really want to know what impact today's "worship" music has in the church, take it away for a month, and see how many people are still in the building.
That is a very good point! All you have to look at is the how many of the up beat churches and services are replacing the traditional ones. The empty seats in the one and the full auditoriums in the other.

I honestly believe that many churches could keep going as normal today even if there was no ministry from the pulpit or the Bible. But if you took away the rock music they wouldn't stay very long would they?

Spiritual life in the 21st century is far different than what it was when I first believed. Then the life was in the word now its in the volume.
My soul used to thump intensely - now its my ears!

God bless

PaulB
  #18  
Old 07-18-2009, 09:20 PM
Scott Swart Scott Swart is offline
 
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I was not raised in the church. I never had any dealings with the body of Christ until later in life.
God had been trying to draw me (read John ch.6) for many years, but I was quite content living in my sin.
He didn't quite get me until 1992, and when He did, I still resisted His calling for some time.
But when I finally bowed to Him, took up the KJV (Sword of the Spirit, Eph. ch. 6), then things really started to fall into place.
I wanted to know Christ and the power of His resurrection. I became hungry for the word of God.
Now, I know people that where raised in the church, and all they want is the "new way to worship".
The current music (it is not neutral) is written in todays language for todays people. As compared to the older hymns that had depth and substance.
We need to get back to the basics, a solid foundation and not the sinking sand the we are currently building on with shallow faith and music that has the theological depth of a kiddie pool.
 

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