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  #21  
Old 05-27-2009, 08:24 PM
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Jassy, I have to make one more comment.

You said: "It isn't promised, until it gets REALLY BAD and there are almost no true Christians left! (A remnant)"

The rapture of the church can happen at any time. There is nothing that has to be accomplished first. The rapture could have happened in the first century anytime after 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed, the Kingdom offer withdrawn from Israel, and the revelation of the mystery of the gentile church had begun. There is no timing given for the rapture of the church. The prophetic clock stopped with the sacrifice of the Jewish Messiah, and the withdrawal of the Kingdom offer to Israel. It won't start ticking again until the Church is out of the picture and the Son of Perdition confirms a covenant with Israel. At that point the 7 year Tribulation, or Day of the Lord, begins.

Daniel
9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Timing and prophecy and numbering (census) have to do only with Israel. The gentile church is a mystery, as we know, not revealed until Paul. The gentile church is never numbered, never given any prophetic time line. We might guess it's about over because we might assume 7000 years from creation through the millennium. We may feel it is close because we see the signs increasing that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 & Luke 21. Yet, Jesus said,

24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The second coming of Christ when he places His feet on the Mt. of Olives, when He comes to rule the earth for 1000 years can be timed once the anti-christ confirms the covenant with Israel and not before. That coming will happen 7 years after the anti-christ confirms the covenant with Israel, and 3 1/2 years after the abomination of desolation. Jesus says that no man knows the day and the hour, only the Father, and to "therefore be ye ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." Matt 24:44.

If you are interested, there are some straight-forward, short books on pre-millennialism and pre-tribulation rapture by John Walvoord that are really good, like "The Return of the Lord" and "The Rapture Question". Allen Beechick, "The Pre-Tribulation Rapture" is easy and excellent. Tim LaHaye's "No Fear of the Storm" is good, as well. You may have already read it but a "must read" (that is, I must read it again after all these years) is "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam. I found "Delving Thru Daniel" by Noah Hutchings to be very basic, readable, and informative regarding Daniel's prophecies.

I hope you find any or all of this information helpful.

Your sister in Christ,

Jennifer

Last edited by greenbear; 05-27-2009 at 08:53 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-27-2009, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Who said I did not believe Christians in the U.S. would not suffer persecution?

I said that pretty soon they would be breaking our doors down at midnight dragging us away.

What do you think I was talking about there
Well...you weren't here to clarify so we ran with our first impression of what you said! Sorry, Winman. (I fervently hope you find this funny and not offensive. I can't stop giggling at the beat a dead horse icon. It must be because it's very late and I'm very tired. It probably won't be as funny in the morning.)

Last edited by greenbear; 05-27-2009 at 11:37 PM.
  #23  
Old 05-28-2009, 05:08 AM
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It is true though in many states if you have a gathering on a regular basis that has more than 15 people in attendance you are to get a permit. it is a lawful assembly permit in some places in others it is known by different names. but the point is they have regulation about large groups that gather together regularly.

if they had a block party that is the same permit they would have to get.

it is no biggy just get a permit. and while your at it invite the city workers to come too.
  #24  
Old 05-28-2009, 02:44 PM
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(I fervently hope you find this funny and not offensive. I can't stop giggling at the beat a dead horse icon. It must be because it's very late and I'm very tired. It probably won't be as funny in the morning.)
No offence taken, and I think that icon is pretty hilarious myself.
  #25  
Old 05-28-2009, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
It is also a pleasure to have you as a sister in the Lord. He uses you to encourage a lot but I believe you also can exhort with great conviction.
It's kind of gratifying to read someone who's view of the world seems so close to my own. I almost think you might even believe, or at least not discard out of hand, some of the "wierder stuff" I believe . Satan certainly is the god of this present world.

I think you are absolutely right about needing to prepare. And that the blessings He promises are primarily spiritual, not physical. When we're living by the Spirit we can appreciate how far greater and more desirable are His spiritual blessings than physical ones.

Jassy, you said: "Why does the Bible tell us that we need to put on armor, if there's not going to be a battle and persecution? We haven't YET had to suffer persecution."
Just like God's promised blessings, the armor of God is also spiritual. It protects us from spiritual attack, not physical. It protects us against every spiritual attack of the enemy if we use it properly and consistently. We don't use the armor against people and governments who persecute us for our faith. I believe the preparation we need to engage in to prepare for the coming persecution is hiding His word in our hearts so that we have his Word even when it's taken away from us..

2 Cor
10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Ephesians
6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

You are so right; The Lord will deliver us from the wrath to come.
He will come for us before the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath. We will likely suffer persecution but we will not suffer wrath, neither God's nor Satan's.

Rev 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Jassy, you said:"It isn't promised, until it gets REALLY BAD and there are almost no true Christians left! (A remnant) The others will deny our Lord when it comes to a crucial test (remember Peter who denied Jesus 3 times!)."
It is possible, I believe, for a christian to deny the Lord by many different motivations. Fear, torture, shame, the love of money, etc. In this age of Grace we do not have to endure until the end to be saved. I came out of the legalism of the SDA church (didn't grow up in it, just a couple of years as a brand new christian or "pre-christian") and it took me a decade to get every last trace of it's leaven- legalistic, Israel/church identity confusion out of my thinking. every time I thought I had killed it for good, it would pop it's ugly head up right in the middle of another discussion or thought. All there is for the church is grace. No requirement to be strong under persecution or torture, no imperative not to deny Him, no nothing- nothing but salvation by faith alone. We are free from ALL!!!!!!!

Romans
8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nothing can take us out of the Body of Christ. Not even ourselves. Nothing present or to come. Nothing.

Back to "wrath". Israel will suffer wrath, though. I don't know why so many Christians want to take on Israel's blessings and their curses.

12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The remnant is Israel. Any time a remnant is spoken of, I believe it is always referring to Israel, not the church. I do think, however, that when Jesus raptures His church before the tribulation, those who are alive at His coming, those translated, will probably be less in number than we think-just IMHO.

My belief is that persecution and suffering will cause true "revival" in the church in America. The Lord has blessed me so much the last 2 weeks as I try to cease walking in my own power and lean upon Him, instead. His children are strengthened when all other avenues of help are closed and we are forced to rely solely on Him. In much the same way, Israel will be blessed with the triumphant return of their Messiah only when no man on earth is able to help them.

12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

In His Love,
Jennifer
Hello sis Jennifer!

I am sorry that I haven't gotten back to answer your reply posted here! I have been busy with other things for a bit.

I'm sure that we would have a lot of biblical beliefs in common and, perhaps, some similar experiences as well. Maybe we could chat or email sometime together apart from the Forum. I would enjoy that.

Satan is certainly the god of this world... that's readily visible, as we see the way the world is today. Yes! It is primarily a spiritual battle. Sure, some of it may be physical as well - however, such a physical battle will arise out of a spiritual one. A conflict between God and Lucifer, who wishes to do battle with God. I agree with you that it is so vital to hide His Word in our hearts - we must literally BURROW it there - so that there is no way it can be ferreted out by the enemy. We will have it at the ready, as needed. It's scary to imagine a time when perhaps our Bible will be taken away from us. I feel ashamed, since I used to have so much more Scripture memorized! I went for quite a long period of time without renewing the Word within me - so I found that I had forgotten so much.

Thank you for differentiating between the persecution of the saints and the WRATH of God. Definitely different! We certainly do not wish to be on earth during that wrath!! Then, we would know we had missed the rapture!!

I'm so glad you came out of the legalism of the SDA church. I had met a man online and he was an SDA church member. His father was a minister. He actually admitted to me, when I pointed out several things, that there was error in the doctrine that the SDA church teaches. Sadly enough, he told me that he could not disobey his father by quitting the SDA Church. My question is: Would he rather disobey His HUMAN father or his HEAVENLY Father? He was 40 years old, so that's quite old enough to make a decision and to be confident enough to leave a church, even if his father was a minister, if there was profound error in it.

Like you, I also came out of a very legalistic, Israel/church identity confusion from a church with a lot of doctrinal error (the Worldwide Church of God), also. So, I can understand where you are coming from in that.

I love your vehemance about FAITH/BELIEF being the only requirement for salvation that we have. Everyone must start at that point.

Hebrews 11:6 - "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

I see that you especially love some of the same Books of the Bible that I do: 2 Cor, Eph, 6, Rom 8...

Thank you for the correction, if the remnant is Israel. I have to admit that I'm still learning and somewhat confused from past teachings that I had learned. It's almost like being DE-PROGRAMMED!!! I think we'd better ask brother George on this one!! He seems to be so wisely and excellently prepared to answer any Bible issues. I've always checked his responses in the Bible and find them to be solid and dependable.

Love in Christ,
Jassy
  #26  
Old 05-28-2009, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Jassy, I have to make one more comment.

You said: "It isn't promised, until it gets REALLY BAD and there are almost no true Christians left! (A remnant)"

The rapture of the church can happen at any time. There is nothing that has to be accomplished first. The rapture could have happened in the first century anytime after 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed, the Kingdom offer withdrawn from Israel, and the revelation of the mystery of the gentile church had begun. There is no timing given for the rapture of the church. The prophetic clock stopped with the sacrifice of the Jewish Messiah, and the withdrawal of the Kingdom offer to Israel. It won't start ticking again until the Church is out of the picture and the Son of Perdition confirms a covenant with Israel. At that point the 7 year Tribulation, or Day of the Lord, begins.

Daniel
9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Timing and prophecy and numbering (census) have to do only with Israel. The gentile church is a mystery, as we know, not revealed until Paul. The gentile church is never numbered, never given any prophetic time line. We might guess it's about over because we might assume 7000 years from creation through the millennium. We may feel it is close because we see the signs increasing that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 & Luke 21. Yet, Jesus said,

24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The second coming of Christ when he places His feet on the Mt. of Olives, when He comes to rule the earth for 1000 years can be timed once the anti-christ confirms the covenant with Israel and not before. That coming will happen 7 years after the anti-christ confirms the covenant with Israel, and 3 1/2 years after the abomination of desolation. Jesus says that no man knows the day and the hour, only the Father, and to "therefore be ye ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." Matt 24:44.

If you are interested, there are some straight-forward, short books on pre-millennialism and pre-tribulation rapture by John Walvoord that are really good, like "The Return of the Lord" and "The Rapture Question". Allen Beechick, "The Pre-Tribulation Rapture" is easy and excellent. Tim LaHaye's "No Fear of the Storm" is good, as well. You may have already read it but a "must read" (that is, I must read it again after all these years) is "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam. I found "Delving Thru Daniel" by Noah Hutchings to be very basic, readable, and informative regarding Daniel's prophecies.

I hope you find any or all of this information helpful.

Your sister in Christ,

Jennifer

Hello Jennifer, my sister in Christ,

Thank you so much for the book recommendations. I will look them up. I appreciate that you took the time to list them and the Scriptures.

I have to address one thing. You said that the rapture of the Church could happen at any moment and that there is nothing that needs to be done first. I believe that what has to be done is:

"And this gospel of the the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14)

So the last of the believers has to be gathered like hens under the wings of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The only way that the last of these can be gathered is if they HEAR the Word of God and BELIEVE.

Romans 10
13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
14 - "How then shall they call on him in whom they have no believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
15 - "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
16 - "But they have not obeyed the gospel. For Esias saith, Lord who hath believed our report?"
17 - "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

So I think the preaching of the gospel EVERYWHERE has to come first. They have said for YEARS that that is close... I do not know. How do we evaluate that? GOD KNOWS!!!

Love in Christ,
Jassy
  #27  
Old 05-28-2009, 11:50 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
Hello sis Jennifer!

I am sorry that I haven't gotten back to answer your reply posted here! I have been busy with other things for a bit.

I'm sure that we would have a lot of biblical beliefs in common and, perhaps, some similar experiences as well. Maybe we could chat or email sometime together apart from the Forum. I would enjoy that.

Satan is certainly the god of this world... that's readily visible, as we see the way the world is today. Yes! It is primarily a spiritual battle. Sure, some of it may be physical as well - however, such a physical battle will arise out of a spiritual one. A conflict between God and Lucifer, who wishes to do battle with God. I agree with you that it is so vital to hide His Word in our hearts - we must literally BURROW it there - so that there is no way it can be ferreted out by the enemy. We will have it at the ready, as needed. It's scary to imagine a time when perhaps our Bible will be taken away from us. I feel ashamed, since I used to have so much more Scripture memorized! I went for quite a long period of time without renewing the Word within me - so I found that I had forgotten so much.

Thank you for differentiating between the persecution of the saints and the WRATH of God. Definitely different! We certainly do not wish to be on earth during that wrath!! Then, we would know we had missed the rapture!!

I'm so glad you came out of the legalism of the SDA church. I had met a man online and he was an SDA church member. His father was a minister. He actually admitted to me, when I pointed out several things, that there was error in the doctrine that the SDA church teaches. Sadly enough, he told me that he could not disobey his father by quitting the SDA Church. My question is: Would he rather disobey His HUMAN father or his HEAVENLY Father? He was 40 years old, so that's quite old enough to make a decision and to be confident enough to leave a church, even if his father was a minister, if there was profound error in it.

Like you, I also came out of a very legalistic, Israel/church identity confusion from a church with a lot of doctrinal error (the Worldwide Church of God), also. So, I can understand where you are coming from in that.

I love your vehemance about FAITH/BELIEF being the only requirement for salvation that we have. Everyone must start at that point.

Hebrews 11:6 - "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

I see that you especially love some of the same Books of the Bible that I do: 2 Cor, Eph, 6, Rom 8...

Thank you for the correction, if the remnant is Israel. I have to admit that I'm still learning and somewhat confused from past teachings that I had learned. It's almost like being DE-PROGRAMMED!!! I think we'd better ask brother George on this one!! He seems to be so wisely and excellently prepared to answer any Bible issues. I've always checked his responses in the Bible and find them to be solid and dependable.

Love in Christ,
Jassy
Sister Jassy,

Life does get in the way of our chatboards sometimes. Please never feel rushed if you have occasion to reply to a post from me. Life can get busy. I can wait! I would enjoy chatting or emailing apart from the board sometime, as well.

I spent years away from God's Word except for sporadic reunions lasting days or weeks. I sure hope it's different this time. I think it is.

I'm happy you aren't offended by my last posts. I had to respond because I am intimately aware of where you're coming from with the remnant/enduring to the end to earn/keep salvation & parable of the 10 virgins-I know you didn't post that parable but it is part of the same error so I mention it. None of it has to do with the church.

Here is a doctrine of the Worldwide Church of God under Tkach (it looks familiar!):
Yet Tkach has also taught that believers can lose their salvation by not being overcomers: "Salvation is one thing but overcoming is another. And if we are not interested in overcoming, you can rest assured that salvation is not going to be there. Salvation is a present possession. However, it does not mean once saved always saved in any way, shape or form. You have to overcome and endure to the end" (Joseph Tkach Sr., "Feast of Tabernacles," Sept. 30, 1993). "If the Christian remains faithful and does not turn away from God, his salvation remains firm and secure. In that sense, 'once saved always saved' is right" (Pastor General Report, May 15, 1990).

That is false doctrine. That is an offense to the finished work that Christ accomplished on the cross.

Here I go again...
You said:
Quote:
I love your vehemance about FAITH/BELIEF being the only requirement for salvation that we have. Everyone must start at that point.
I say:
Quote:
Faith is not just the starting point for our salvation. It is the middle point and the ending point. There is nothing else. That's all there is. No works, nothing we can do to earn it. Anything we try to do to earn it is an insult to the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Coming out of these "Christian" cults does require intensive de-programming for the christian to have real assurance and liberty in Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit does the de-programming using the Word of God and God uses members of the Body to help accomplish His work. I remember after I came out of SDA I turned my back on God and even denied Jesus. I told my friends and family that He is a lie. I am weeping while I type these words. But the Lord didn't deny me. He patiently and lovingly worked in my life until I could no longer deny my need to seek Him again. Even then I still trusted the wrong people; Charismatic tongues, slaying in the spirit, all manner of occult activity in christian guise. But the Lord brought me through all the deception into his pure truth. Salvation is a free gift. We have nothing to give Him that He wants in exchange for the everlasting life He gives to us- except for our faith and complete trust in His provision for us.

I'm glad to ask along with you for brother George's answers to these questions. I believe that he is trustworthy to answer Bible issues giving scriptural support; including the eternal security of the believer, the identity of the remnant, whether it is Israel or the church that has to endure to the end, as well as whether or not there remains anything that must occur before the rapture of the church can take place.

In His Love,

Your sister Jennifer

Last edited by greenbear; 05-29-2009 at 12:14 AM.
  #28  
Old 05-29-2009, 12:04 AM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
Hello Jennifer, my sister in Christ,

Thank you so much for the book recommendations. I will look them up. I appreciate that you took the time to list them and the Scriptures.

I have to address one thing. You said that the rapture of the Church could happen at any moment and that there is nothing that needs to be done first. I believe that what has to be done is:

"And this gospel of the the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14)

So the last of the believers has to be gathered like hens under the wings of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The only way that the last of these can be gathered is if they HEAR the Word of God and BELIEVE.

Romans 10
13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
14 - "How then shall they call on him in whom they have no believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
15 - "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
16 - "But they have not obeyed the gospel. For Esias saith, Lord who hath believed our report?"
17 - "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

So I think the preaching of the gospel EVERYWHERE has to come first. They have said for YEARS that that is close... I do not know. How do we evaluate that? GOD KNOWS!!!

Love in Christ,
Jassy
Jassy, my sister in Christ,
If you read any one of my numerous recommendations I would choose "Things that Differ" by C R Stam.

Quote:
I have to address one thing. You said that the rapture of the Church could happen at any moment and that there is nothing that needs to be done first. I believe that what has to be done is:

"And this gospel of the the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14)
Can we agree to ask Brother George? We're keeping Brother George very busy these days!

Grace and Peace,

Jennifer
  #29  
Old 05-29-2009, 02:42 PM
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biblereader biblereader is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Amen, biblereader!

2 Tim 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Thanks for the encouragement. I love you in the Lord, sister.
I love you in Jesus, too, greenbear.
  #30  
Old 05-29-2009, 02:48 PM
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biblereader biblereader is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Boy, you know Christians have been saying it's the end forever. But how can it be very far off? Pretty soon they are going to be breaking down the door at midnight dragging us away.

That's OK, Jesus promised to come and take us away. It can't be far off.
When you said Jesus promised to come and take us away, it can't be far off, I thought you meant we would be taken up before persecutions arise.
A lot of Christians are not willing to think about the US becoming a non-freedom of religion country. They keep saying Jesus will rapture us up, before any of this happens.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.
I do hope my reply helped others, though, who might be weak and anxious about their future here.
 

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