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Old 05-19-2008, 08:18 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Default Secret Rapture

Over the years I have heard some pretty reliable men say the Lord will return and secretly remove the body of Christ. not one gives a Bible verse for their statement.

Now I know that no one can no when the Lord will do this and that is a secret but this is not what is being said.

I do not believe that the disappearance of 700 to 900 million people plus more empty graves will go unnoticed and it wont diffently be a secret from the world though they might not know what is going on and they may believe the lie. but it will be no secret to the world that something took place.

What are the views of the secret rapture? do any of you care to share with us as to why many think it will be secret removal of the Body by the Lord
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:51 PM
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You Eff Ohs
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:05 PM
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Maybe I should clarify that. Now, whether or not I believe UFO's and Aliens will invade is irellevent, but it sure will be a good DECEPTION that people will believe, amidst the Chaos of a few hundred million people disappearing. I don't believe in a "secret" rapture. It will be pretty obvious that something major has gone down. We will hear the Trump of God. They will only hear it as a thunder.

If 700 Million people disappear, and only the unbelievers are left, and some world leader comes along and says "UFO's took them blah blah blah", I'd say most of the unbelieving world (who believe in evolution and life on other planets), would be satisified with that answer, and rally around this world leader, and bring about "peace" now that all the wackos and "hate criminals" have vanished.

There will be at least 144,001 who do not believe this lie (the 144,000, plus, they must have at least one convert during the tribulation!)
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:14 PM
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Luke, don't forget the 2 witnesses (probably the reason there is a 144,000 otherwise they would have been raptured as well).
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Old 05-20-2008, 03:08 PM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
 
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The 144,000 are the jewish people left during the tribulation to minister to the people,and a time where Jews may recieve there Messiah,12 tribes of Israel with 12,000 = the 144,000, since they missed him the first time. This is to the best of my knowledge.
I don't believe in a secret rapture,if christians would notice the signs in the bible of the Lords return, the Rapture, they would be looking for him.

No one knows the day or the hour,but is commanded of us to know even at the door. Most christians look at you funny when you bring up bible prophecy, and a lot of churches skip over ezekiel,daniel and revelation,because they say its too negative and they don't need to know. Remember,Mega inspirational churches today are all about the Love.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:34 PM
fundy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Over the years I have heard some pretty reliable men say the Lord will return and secretly remove the body of Christ. not one gives a Bible verse for their statement.

Now I know that no one can no when the Lord will do this and that is a secret but this is not what is being said.

I do not believe that the disappearance of 700 to 900 million people plus more empty graves will go unnoticed and it wont diffently be a secret from the world though they might not know what is going on and they may believe the lie. but it will be no secret to the world that something took place.

What are the views of the secret rapture? do any of you care to share with us as to why many think it will be secret removal of the Body by the Lord

My view is that anyone promoting an extra-Biblical doctrine that only they have insight of, so therefore if you wish to know more or partake of the "revelation", you must go to them and not Gods word, are either Catholic priests or promoters of some other kind of cult.

As far as a "secret" rapture is concerned...most of those left behind will not believe the Biblical explanation for the event, but to think that multiple millions of people disappearing going un-noticed or secretly is farcical.

fundy
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:58 AM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
 
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The Rapture is not a secret.

Matthew 24v 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man , no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were , so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


John 14v1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so , I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:35 AM
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I agree that there is nothing secret about millions of graves opening and others dissappearing, etc.

I also agree that this occurrence is not a secret (anymore, that is) as the scripture teaches that it will take place.

Jeremy,

Be careful as to what you use as your "proof text" for the rapture. Your quoting of Matt. 24 won't help prove this "catching away," for the rapture is not found anywhere in the chapter.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:48 AM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
 
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I am not sure what you mean about proof of the rapture in Matthew, those verses give an example of how christians should be looking for the coming of the Lord.
Maybe it is not proof,as far as your concerned about the rapture,but, it does say we are to be looking.
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Old 05-24-2008, 07:45 AM
toiwnz toiwnz is offline
 
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Concerning this subject, some christians are getting there doctrine from popular fiction novels and movies. These authors and directors give a few verses to support their claim but when you put those verses with the all of the other verses of scripture you can see that it's not a secret. You don't find in scripture where only believers will see him. You don't find in scripture of a second and third coming. I think the big question is the timing. A lot of people believe Jesus' coming is before the tribulation. Here are just a few scriptures. When you take a single scripture or two out of context of the entire Bible then you support almost any doctrine.

Quote:
Revelation 1:7-Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen

Matthew 24:27-For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

Matthew 24:30-And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Psalm 50:3-Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
These are just a few scriptures that speak of the visible and audible return of Christ. I'm sorry to say that there is not any mention of a two phase coming of Christ. In fact there is mention of just the opposite in scripture. Look at these verses.

Quote:
Matthew 13:24-30, 39-40
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:47-49
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
These two sets of scripture speaks volumes against a two phase second coming or a secret coming. Jesus himself said that the two groups of people would grow together until the end of the world. Later in the book Jesus speaks of the gathering and seperation plainly. Look at this scripture

Quote:
Matthew 24:31-And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
I have seen this scripture used to give claim to a secret rapture or a two phase coming. But you can't take this scripture out by itself. As seen with the other two, Jesus said the two groups would grow together until the end and then he will send his angels to seperate and gather. If we really think about this secret rapture or two phase coming we will find many other things that go against scripture. One question that I've always asked is "if we are going to be taken away before the tribulation then why study what's going to happen in the tribulation? We won't be here so why study about it" The doctrine of a secret rapture is escape route. The scripture tell us that we will go through tribulation. Jesus even said this in Mark 13. All throughout church history the body has been persucuted. To try and save our lives now goes against scripture. Scriptures are clear we will go through trials and tribulations in this life. But Jesus spoke volumes about trying to save our lives and leave this world. Look at these scriptures.

Matthew 16:25-For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it

John 17:14-16-14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world

As we have seen the destruction that's going on in the world now (earthquakes, cyclones, wars, gay marriages). These are the signs of the times and Jesus said that it's just the beginning. Things are going to get worst. Think about the witnessing opportunity we will have when all these plagues, destruction, and judgment begin.
 

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