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Old 05-06-2008, 09:38 PM
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Default Hell and the Bottomless Pit

Is Hell the same as the Bottomless Pit? There are varied opinions among Bible believers. What do you think?
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:19 AM
look3467
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The word "bottomless" gives the notion of a depth so far that hope becomes impossible.

The word "hell" is a place of separation.
Combining them both is a bottomless pit, or complete separation with no possibility of release.

A prisoner, if you will.

Jesus had to go there ref:
Psa 28:1 <A Psalm of David.> Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.


In order to liberate the prisoners from day one of humanity, Jesus had to go and present Himself to them in the pit, the place of separation, hell, the bottomless hopeless place, and deliver them out of it.

Ref: Two gates

Isa 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:


Exo 27:19 All the vessels of the tabernacle in all the service thereof, and all the pins thereof, and all the pins of the court, shall be of brass.
For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

Of Iron:
Psa 107:10 Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron;

Of Brass:
Exo 27:19 All the vessels of the tabernacle in all the service thereof, and all the pins thereof, and all the pins of the court, shall be of brass.

Iron is alluded to things under heaven and brass to things in heaven, therefore verse Psa 107:10 gives us a clue that both gates were broke open when Jesus paid the price.

Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Praise be to God.

Peace>>>AJ
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:47 AM
jerry
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? Isaiah 45 is referring to the literal gates of Babylon - not of Hell. Psalm 107 is referring to this life (the shadow of death) and being enslaved by sin.
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Old 05-07-2008, 09:57 AM
look3467
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Individual scriptures describe events as stated, but in the big picture, if one wants to see the works of god in them, then there are clues within those scriptures that add up to make the description of the big picture.

Take for example the four beasts with six wings. It is dividing the day by 4 equal parts of 6 hours each. The day being that day Jesus was crucified.

The heavens gates and the prisons gates were all opened up to us, where before the cross, they were shut.

No one could open or shut those gates save God Himself via Jesus.

That is the big picture that is hidden in the details.

We are all accustomed to understanding the details and not seeing the big picture in the details.

Another example is the notion of the 7 year tribulation period, has literally been tried to be explained as something yet future, but in reality, it all happened the day of the cross where Jesus Himself endured all those things for us.

The things hidden in scripture are hidden for those of us who want to seek a deeper meaning to our own relationship with God.

It is nothing to proclaim for it is very deep stuff and for personal worship and understanding.
I bring this out in case there are some seeking deeper understandings with a different view, yet, not taking away from the glory that is Christs.

Hope you understand what I am saying?

Peace>>>AJ
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:04 AM
jerry
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Sounds like you are winging it in your theology! Making it up as you go along is the philosophy of fools. When you stray beyond what the Bible actually says and make it mean something else, you are on dangerous ground!

The four beasts in Revelation are angels - nothing more - that picture the Lord Jesus Christ as He is presented in the four Gospels (the same picture the fourfold faces of the cherubim give). The seven year tribulation was fulfilled in six hours on the cross - if you were one of my clients at the Gospel Mission, I would ask you how much crack you were smoking...
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:58 PM
look3467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry View Post
Sounds like you are winging it in your theology! Making it up as you go along is the philosophy of fools. When you stray beyond what the Bible actually says and make it mean something else, you are on dangerous ground!

The four beasts in Revelation are angels - nothing more - that picture the Lord Jesus Christ as He is presented in the four Gospels (the same picture the fourfold faces of the cherubim give). The seven year tribulation was fulfilled in six hours on the cross - if you were one of my clients at the Gospel Mission, I would ask you how much crack you were smoking...

Your response is understandable. I critique no one for what they choose to believe.
I give my views and anyone can elect to believe what they want, just as long as love is at the base of their beliefs.

Peace>>>AJ
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Old 05-17-2008, 01:51 AM
Truth4Today
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biblestudent View Post
Is Hell the same as the Bottomless Pit? There are varied opinions among Bible believers. What do you think?
I have always understood the pit to be a place in hell. In other words, it is not hell, but rather the abyss or bottomless pit that is in hell.

__________________________________

- “One accurate measurement is worth more than a thousand expert opinions”

- “...this is the Word of God; come, search, ye critics, and find a flaw; examine it, from its Genesis to its Revelation, and find an error... This is the book untainted by any error; but is pure, unalloyed, perfect truth. Why? Because God wrote it. Ah! charge God with error if you please; tell him that his book is not what it ought to be. I have heard men, with prudish and mock-modesty, who would like to alter the Bible; and (I almost blush to say it) I have heard ministers alter God's Bible, because they were afraid of it... Pity they were not born when God lived far—far back that they might have taught God how to write.” Charles Haddon Spurgeon (Spurgeon's Sermons Volume 1: Sermon II p. 31)

- “If, therefore, any do complain that I have sometimes hit my opponents rather hard, I take leave to point out that 'to everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the sun' : 'a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embracing' : a time for speaking smoothly, and a time for speaking sharply. And that when the words of Inspiration are seriously imperilled, as now they are, it is scarcely possible for one who is determined effectually to preserve the Deposit in its integrity, to hit either too straight or too hard.” Dean John William Burgon (The Revision Revised. pp. vii-viii)
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Old 05-17-2008, 10:25 AM
look3467
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The main object of hell is separation.
Mankind was placed into a condition which alienated it from God, first the flesh is and earthly vessels and second, the spirit in mankind was also alienated as well, bringing death or separation from God due to the conditions God placed on us.

But God in all wisdom and understanding understood that He alone could undo the separation by complying with His own requirements in a body of flesh created just for that purpose and offer it up in our behalf.

The object "hell" meaning separation was eliminated eternally by God Himself and we had absolutely nothing to do with that.

What we do have is our own rewards and or consequences here on earth.
We do good, rewards, we do evil consequences, either way we pay or are rewarded.

Alienation from God can also present a sort of hell on earth because to live on earth without God in our lives is a sort of hell.

Yes, many "good folk" many say they don't need God, yet they have a form of Godliness by which they are governed to do good, even if they don't want to admit it.

So, defining hell under the statements I made will give you a bigger picture, then trying to define hell on just a few verses.

Try to see the works of God in the creation, the fall of mankind, the redemption of mankind and the salvation of mankind, rather than to look at mankind's works in single verses in the bible.

Mankind's works are all in error, for what good can come out of the flesh unless God is in it, save Jesus?

Gods works depict His love not for one, but for "all" mankind, via one body, that being Jesus' body.

The church, a many membered body is one body, and only in that body can we exist eternally, for that body is God.

Only one God and no other.

Peace>>>AJ
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 View Post
The main object of hell is separation.
Mankind was placed into a condition which alienated it from God, first the flesh is and earthly vessels and second, the spirit in mankind was also alienated as well, bringing death or separation from God due to the conditions God placed on us.

But God in all wisdom and understanding understood that He alone could undo the separation by complying with His own requirements in a body of flesh created just for that purpose and offer it up in our behalf.

The object "hell" meaning separation was eliminated eternally by God Himself and we had absolutely nothing to do with that. (huh?)

What we do have is our own rewards and or consequences here on earth.
We do good, rewards, we do evil consequences, either way we pay or are rewarded.

Alienation from God can also present a sort of hell on earth because to live on earth without God in our lives is a sort of hell.

Yes, many "good folk" many say they don't need God, yet they have a form of Godliness by which they are governed to do good, even if they don't want to admit it.

So, defining hell under the statements I made will give you a bigger picture, then trying to define hell on just a few verses.

Try to see the works of God in the creation, the fall of mankind, the redemption of mankind and the salvation of mankind, rather than to look at mankind's works in single verses in the bible.

Mankind's works are all in error, for what good can come out of the flesh unless God is in it, save Jesus?

Gods works depict His love not for one, but for "all" mankind, via one body, that being Jesus' body.

The church, a many membered body is one body, and only in that body can we exist eternally, for that body is God.

Only one God and no other.

Peace>>>AJ
I agree it is seperation from God. It is also a literal fiery hell, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. The beginning of wisdom is fear of God. Many lost want nothing more than seperation from God. A fiery hell gives them something to think about. God is a consuming fire. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

AJ. I think I remember you saying everyone is saved? Forgive me if I'm wrong.
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:23 PM
look3467
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Originally Posted by Debau View Post
I agree it is separation from God. It is also a literal fiery hell, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. The beginning of wisdom is fear of God. Many lost want nothing more than separation from God. A fiery hell gives them something to think about. God is a consuming fire. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

AJ. I think I remember you saying everyone is saved? Forgive me if I'm wrong.
Hi, Debau

Please understand that traditional views on hell are as you speak.

Recall that Jesus also went to hell:
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Would that also mean Jesus was burning also? Of course not!

He must have needed to go to hell for there were souls there needing redemption.

Redemption needed meant that hell was but a holding place, separate from the presence of God where departed souls went for lack of redemption.

Until Jesus came, there was no redemption for them or for the yet living, so Jesus had to consume us all with the fire of cleanliness in His body.


Yes, I agree that respect to wards God is the beginnings of of understanding that leaded to wisdom.

"Many Lost" as you say are already lost to start with, so anybody is considered lost so that the power of God will be manifested.

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

You and I have been granted the privilege of believing in Jesus, therefore are presently saved by the mere nature of being born again, of His live Spirit via the Holy Ghost.

Therefore, for us, there is no longer condemnation, for that is done away with in Jesus, but for the rest of the world not yet aware of the gift of life, are condemned already.

Ever body is condemned once and in need of redemption, even the caveman who knew not one thing about God, the Indians, the African tribes and anybody else that has not an inkling of who or what God really is.

They all had, have a conscience of a higher spirit which abides in all mankind that leads them to believe in something other than humanity, a spirited entity of which they could only relate to with what knowledge they had.

A tree, an elephant, a mouse or any idol.

One has to understand that God placed us in a environment conducive to sin, rather to the desires of the flesh, after all, we are fleshly beings.

He very well knew this, and made provisions for our rescue.

You will find in Romans 8-20, just that tid-bit of a clue.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

And in closing, the answer to your last question is yes, I have discovered via my studies, my understanding enlightened by the Holy Spirit, that God saves all.

It is a hard pill to swallow for many Christians I know, but the mercies of God are greater than any sin we could ever commit.

Take for example, who suppose had the biggest, the worst sins, and in total, the sins of the whole world?

Could that individual ever be forgiven while laying in hell?

Read on:
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

The doors of hells prison and the gates of heaven are now open and no man can shut them.

So, now, heaven is open to us via the tree of life and hell can hold no more souls, for Jesus took care of that.

So, fear of hell is mankind's way of controlling the masses, but love for God is the way of liberty.

There then is no one believer of any belief we can condemn, for God has subjected us all in hope.

Can it be now understood the words of Christ when He said, love thy neighbor as thy self?

If we are to teach, instruct in the things of God to a lost world, let us announce, proclaim the good news and live it in action whereby the world may see the goodness of God in us.

Peace>>>AJ
 

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