Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-26-2008, 01:33 PM
Easy E Easy E is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Insane asylum, run by the inmates.
Posts: 55
Default Paul's Signs

When did Paul lose his signs?

Or did he?

All I know is that he couldn't heal Timothy or Trophimus. (I Tim 5:23 and II Tim 4:20).
Interested to know what ye think.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
Old 04-26-2008, 03:26 PM
Posts: n/a

2 Timothy is very possibly Paul's last letter written (I think he also wrote Hebrews, and that comes later - but that is another debate). He no longer needed the signs of an apostle as he was nearing the end of his ministry and nearing the end of the revelation he was giving from God.
Old 04-29-2008, 08:48 AM
Posts: n/a
Default Paul's signs did disappear

As you stated yourself - Paul's signs did disappear. If they had not he would have healed. The question is not really if, but when? That is a very important question. But a preliminary question may be why he had signs? If we answer that question we will find the answer to the first question.

The first answer would be he was an apostle, so he had the signs of an apostle (2Co 12:12). But why did an apostle need signs for that matter? 2Co 5:7 says we are to walk by faith, not by sight so we are not to require signs. 1Co 1:22 says the Jews required a sign - that is not because of unbelief - that is exactly what God told them would come from Him when He spoke to His prophets. There were two requirements God told them they were to have when He sent them a prophet - one was that the message was to be in line with what God taught them in His word - and there was to be a sign that came to pass (Deu 13:1-5; 18:20-22). So when God sent the Apostle Paul he had the appropriate signs that came to pass and he said over and over during his ministry what he taught was in line with what God taught them in the OT.

When you start out the book of Acts salvation belongs to the Jews (john 4:22) and they get a renewed offer to receive their Kingdom that was "at hand" during Christ's ministry among them. The Holy Spirit was part of their New Covenant which preceded the Kingdom. When you close the book of Acts you see the salvation of God is sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), it is no longer of the Jews. Israel is set aside while God is out there among the Gentiles, and when God is done with the Gentiles in forming the Body of Christ, He will return to Israel once again and fulfill all the promises that God made for them according to Romans 11:25-29. Israel during this age is mostly blinded - hence the small amount of Jews that are in the Body of Christ and the large amount that are Gentiles. We did not replace Israel or supercede them - God is going to do for them exactly as He said He would when He is done with the Gentiles.

While Israel has been set aside and temporarily blinded God is among the Gentiles and the signs that belonged to the nation of Israel are set aside as well so you see God now tell us we are to walk by faith, not by sight (signs).

The truth of the matter is that Israel was given signs (such as crossing the Red Sea on dry ground) and that was supposed to cause them to believe in God and follow Him, which you see Israel rarely do. But today is an age of "full knowledge" that faith has always been the real issue with God so we are told to walk by faith, not sight. We are told to believe God period. So we are a people who are to just believe what God said in His word given to us and apply it to the details of life by faith.

Hope that helps brother!
Old 04-29-2008, 09:44 AM
Easy E Easy E is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Insane asylum, run by the inmates.
Posts: 55

ah, thanks guy,

I see what you are saying and I appreciate that answer. But when the charismatics ask us to explain why these signs are gone in our age, I have had a hard time pointing to a specific verse and saying "Before this there were signs and afterwards there were none."

I very much understand why they are gone. I think that Acts 28:28 is that verse I was looking for. But I kinda see the Gospel going to the Gentiles at ch. 13 (esp vs46). Can you explain the reason for their existence all that time?
Old 06-15-2008, 08:17 PM
Renee Renee is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 152

Easy E,

If you haven't already, go to : Doctrine----Thread ---The gifts of the Holy Spirit for today? It may help you find an answer to your question about Paul.

Aloha Renee
Old 06-19-2008, 06:26 AM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431

signs were used to prove one had authority of God to go about His business. once his auuthority was established there was no longer a need for the sign. Pauls signs were notjust to Jews they were also to Gentiles.
Old 08-04-2008, 11:55 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 645

It seems to me that everyone in the Charismatic movement is seeking to become a "Super Duper amped up Believer" looking for the latest "Buzz" and claiming it in the name of Jesus. I, when I wasn't right with the LORD, got high on E. The emotional experience this brought is frighteningly similar to those that are Supposedly annointed in the Holy Spirit. Trance / Rock events coupled with drugs along with the Driven Beats create an altered state Chemically, mentally and Physically, people felt so much love and overpowering emotion that many claim to have had a religious experience when in reality this Feeling was FALSE a "familiar Spirit". The shortfall of these emotions is that the only way to Go from the High is to crash down to the bottom with no happy medium and the result is an emotional broken mess. Having witnessed Charismatic events and worldly events Like Trance Concerts and partaken in the latter, the Spirit is the same, It is Kundalini and it most certainly is not Of God.
Worship should center around Christ and his written Word and not a constant thirst for an emotional experience. Leave those things to the Outside world. I know I have.

Posted in the Name of Our LORD Jesus Christ.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

Contact Us AV1611.Com