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Old 10-30-2008, 08:53 PM
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Default Baptism by Pouring and Baptism by Burying (Immersion)

Most Baptists like me had thought baptizo (Gr.) should always mean "immersion". The KJV, however, did not translate but rather transliterated the word. The reason is obvious, baptizo can't always be by immersion. For example:

"POURED" BAPTISM
("Baptism with the Holy Ghost")

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 2:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

"BURIED" BAPTISM
("Baptism by one Spirit into one body")

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The more detailed outline is not included here to avoid a lengthy post and for the brethren to freely discuss this matter. I would like to know what others think of this. This is one of the results of my attempt to apply the principles of right division to Bible study.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:15 PM
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It is interesting looking at forms of Baptism, as an Anglican, it depends on the Church, we HAVE Churches with full immersion tanks, mine does not, our sanctuary used to be a Presbyterian Church so we are not set up to "dunk" so we pour, or in a recent case, a Gentleman with severe MS in a wheelchair, our Pastor sprinkled, (it was just easier). All these methods have been used for 2 thousand years, sometimes pouring was the only way to do it because of limited place for immersion, or perhaps someone is bed-ridden, but wishes this. In my case I like to joke that I have all m bases covered, I was infant Baptized, THEN as an adult, I made Pilgrimage to Jerusalem and took full immersion in River Jordan. (Brrr! That was cold!) Blessings.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:29 PM
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Hi, TA! Most Filipinos also have experienced Roman Catholic sprinkling (as a baby), as well as immersion.

I am not, however, advocating different "forms" of water baptism to be practiced today. If water baptism is a "figure" (1 Pet. 3:21), then it must picture something.

I believe we ought to water baptized only by immersion in this Church Age. Immersion is the only mode that really pictures being "buried into Christ" or being "baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ".

Furthermore, the Scripture passages quoted in the first post are not references to water baptism but to two types of Spirit baptisms - (1) the pouring of the Holy Spirit on believers (in another dispensation) and (2) the Holy Spirit putting believers (in the Age of Grace) into the Body of Christ.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:37 PM
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Don't forget the baptism of fire (Matt. 3:11, Lk. 3:16) and the baptism of Moses (1 Cor. 10:2).

Moses' baptism definitely wasn't immersion; they came out dry. But yes, the baptism of fire is definitely immersion...eternally.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:49 PM
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I tend to vary from the belief that "baptism with fire" is to be cast into the lake of fire forever.

If baptism WITH the Holy Ghost is the "pouring" of the Holy Ghost, it appeas to me that the baptism WITH fire doesn't match with being immersed into eternal fire. I think the baptism with fire matches closer to the "pouring" of fire in the Tribulation period, the pouring out of God's wrath.

I don't have a ready reference now (I'm out-of-town.), but the context of Matthew 3 seems to fit the pouring of fire (and of God's wrath) at the end of the Tribulation period, as well as at the end of the Millennium. OT references on the pouring out of God's wrath and the pouring of fire in Israel's "last days" are abundant. That is, if they refuse to be "baptized with the Holy Ghost" (pouring out of the Holy Ghost), they will be "baptized with fire" (pouring of fire and God's wrath).

Of course, I believe the unsaved will finally be cast into (immersed) the lake of fire; but the phrase "baptized with fire" (I believe) particularly refers to the pouring of fire, just as being "baptized with the Holy Ghost" is the pouring of the Holy Ghost.

In other words, I am of the opinion that the term "baptized WITH", as defined in the context, should be taken to mean "pouring". Of course, "baptism by...INTO", "put into" or "cast into" has to be immersion.

Last edited by Biblestudent; 10-30-2008 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:54 PM
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You're right; I wasn't thinking clearly. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:59 PM
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Thanks!
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biblestudent View Post
Most Baptists like me had thought baptizo (Gr.) should always mean "immersion". The KJV, however, did not translate but rather transliterated the word. The reason is obvious, baptizo can't always be by immersion. For example:

"POURED" BAPTISM
("Baptism with the Holy Ghost")

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 2:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

"BURIED" BAPTISM
("Baptism by one Spirit into one body")

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The more detailed outline is not included here to avoid a lengthy post and for the brethren to freely discuss this matter. I would like to know what others think of this. This is one of the results of my attempt to apply the principles of right division to Bible study.
I think this is a great post, with great info. It is also the precise reason the Mennonite pour (well the precise reason being that they have no concept of right division).

Thank you brother for making this plain and easy to follow. I will be using it ^_^

EDIT: Oh btw, can I get the lengthy version of this? Feel free to email it to me sphorner at-the-domain gmail put-a-dot-here com

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:29 AM
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I'm out of town now (puerto princessa city, palawan; the same city where chette lives ). The "lengthy" version is in my sister's computer back home, and I'll e-mail it to you when I get back Monday. Thanks for asking!
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biblestudent View Post
I'm out of town now (puerto princessa city, palawan; the same city where chette lives ). The "lengthy" version is in my sister's computer back home, and I'll e-mail it to you when I get back Monday. Thanks for asking!
No, thank you! Can't wait to look at it when I get the chance.

Peace and Love,
Stephen
 

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