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  #41  
Old 12-13-2008, 03:27 PM
Scott Swart Scott Swart is offline
 
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As a matter of fact I do, and I will go even further to say, that if everyone who claims the name of Christ were to adopt the KJV as the sole source of devotion and study, there would be more day-to-day sanctification within the body of Christ.
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  #42  
Old 12-13-2008, 03:30 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Scott Swart View Post
As a matter of fact I do, and I will go even further to say, that if everyone who claims the name of Christ were to adopt the KJV as the sole source of devotion and study, there would be more day-to-day sanctification within the body of Christ.
Amen!!!
  #43  
Old 12-13-2008, 03:57 PM
BrianT
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Hi Scott,

Quote:
The source has been outlined, it is the Word of God.
And yet KJV-only supporters disagree on doctrine. The point of the original post is that if you have any doctrine wrong, you are a "heretic". So when KJV-only supporters disagree on doctrine, how do we determine which (if any) are not a heretic?

Hi Forrest,

Quote:
BrianT--I will gladly consider differing views on Doctrine with a "brother" who "believes" the word of God is preserved, in the English language, in the 66 books found in the Authorized King James Bible.
It's simple. God is all authority. God said He would preserve every word. I believe that He preserved His authoritative written word in the King James Bible.
I believe the same thing, I just do not believe it was preserved in the same way you believe it was preserved, and I do not claim my belief as authoritative. I've explained this many times, I don't know why you continue to misunderstand me.

Quote:
But the FIRST issue that must be settled is: DO WE HAVE IN OUR POSSESSION TODAY THE PRESERVED WRITTEN WORD OF GOD, IN THE KING JAMES BIBLE?
No, there is a issue before that which is - is that kind of preservation what scripture meant, and does anyone have the authority to name any specific translation as exclusively God's word? Your "first issue" is based on a presumption, and it's that presumption I question.

Quote:
I cannot discuss, learn, or be edified from someone who has no authoritative scripture.
Then why do you keep responding to me?

The main point of this thread is George's original post, that if you don't have perfect doctrine, you are a heretic. Does anyone here claim to have perfect doctrine? When KJV-only supporters disagree with someone else, who has the authority to decide who is correct and who isn't? For example, there is a KJV-only supporter on this board who I know denies the Trinity. I have opposed him several times in the past on this issue, yet when KJV-only supporters find out, they don't say anything to him simply because he is KJV-only. That is a farce and a shame in my opinion.
  #44  
Old 12-13-2008, 04:03 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Hi Forrest, I believe the same thing, I just do not believe it was preserved in the same way you believe it was preserved, and I do not claim my belief as authoritative. I've explained this many times, I don't know why you continue to misunderstand me.
Then what is your source for authority?
  #45  
Old 12-13-2008, 04:08 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BrianT View Post
For example, there is a KJV-only supporter on this board who I know denies the Trinity. I have opposed him several times in the past on this issue, yet when KJV-only supporters find out, they don't say anything to him simply because he is KJV-only. That is a farce and a shame in my opinion.
Does he deny that the King James Bible is the preserved written word of God?
  #46  
Old 12-13-2008, 04:14 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Hi Forrest, Then why do you keep responding to me?
1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
  #47  
Old 12-13-2008, 04:20 PM
Harley Harley is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianT View Post
For example, there is a KJV-only supporter on this board who I know denies the Trinity. I have opposed him several times in the past on this issue, yet when KJV-only supporters find out, they don't say anything to him simply because he is KJV-only.
Is this true?

Can you share the post where this KJV-only supporter on this board has openly said he/she denies the Trinity?

I ask because I have some curiosity as to how someone would arrive at this conclusion using the King James Version. Again, some curiosity. For me, I completely believe in the Trinity because the Holy Ghost taught me via my King James Bible.

Peace,
Harley
  #48  
Old 12-13-2008, 05:53 PM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Amen!!!
I am not as well versed as some of you. The only perfectly preserved word of God is the KJ Bible.

A Double Amen! and a "boom-sha-cho-lacha!"

OH,sorry guys,lost my composure. I guess i'll go back to reading the posts.
  #49  
Old 12-13-2008, 05:58 PM
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George George is offline
 
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Default Re: " Heresies & Hereticks"

Aloha all,

The following information is supplied for those brethren on the Forum who are sincerely interested in the Truth (Sophists not included!). Because of the preponderance of Sophists (even amongst the brethren) in the Western world, everything that a person speaks or writes today must be carefully explained, or words will be taken out of context, or twisted to make them say something other than that which was intended. This Post is meant to “clarify” any misconceptions I may have given about “Heresies & Hereticks”.

The following is a partial list of Bible doctrines that are either denied, twisted, or changed that qualifies a person for being a Heretick, or an Apostate, or an Atheist, or an Agnostic (“AAA”).

1.
A person who - Does not believe in God (The God of the Bible) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

2. A person who - Does not believe in Satan (As described in the Bible) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

3. A person who - Does not believe in Angels (As existing) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

4. A person who - Does not believe in Devils (Evil spirits exist) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

5. A person who - Does not believe in Creation (The Biblical account) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

6. A person who - Does not believe that Man (Is Body, Soul, and Spirit) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

7. A person who - Does not believe in the Soul (As existing) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

8. A person who - Does not believe in man’s Spirit (As existing) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

9. A person who - Does not believe in Evil (That it exists - The Biblical concept) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

10. A person who - Does not believe in “The Fall of Man” (Bible account) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

11. A person who - Does not believe in Sin (The sinful nature of all mankind.) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

12. A person who - Does not believe in Redemption (Mankind’s need of Salvation) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

13. A person who - Does not believe in Signs, wonders, miracles (Recorded in the Bible) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

14. A person who - Does not believe in the World wide Flood (The Biblical Account) = HERETIC or {“AAA”}

15. A person who - Does not believe in Personal Accountability (Individuals responsible for their own actions) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

16. A person who - Does not believe in Judgment (That God is going to judge all of mankind.) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

17. A person who - Does not believe in Heaven (A place of Eternal Life with God) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

18. A person who - Does not believe in Hell (A place for Eternal Punishment.) = HERETIC or {“AAA”}

19. A person who - Does not believe that the Hebrews – Jews – Israel (Are God’s earthly chosen people.) = HERETIC or {“AAA”}

THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST:
20. A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As being the bodily manifestation of the Godhead. = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

21. A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As being the fullness of the Godhead bodily. = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

22.
A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As the Creator of the world and the universe. = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

23. A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As to his Incarnation – Miraculous Conception & Birth) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

24. A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As the Jews [Hebrew] Messiah.) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

25. A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As the one and only Saviour of mankind and the world.) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

26. A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As Rising from the dead.) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

27.
A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As the only Head of the Church – His body here on earth. = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

28. A person who - Does not believe in Jesus Christ - As to His Second Coming – as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

29. A person who - Does not believe in The Blood Atonement (Jesus Christ’s shed Blood paid the price for sin – sins.) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.


30. A person who - Does not believe that a person must be Born Again (a person needs to be born again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God) = an APOSTATE, Atheist or Agnostic.

31. A person who - Does not believe in the Church of God (Christ’s Bride – The Pillar and Ground of the Truth.) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

32. A person who - Does not believe in Biblical Marriage (God’s Institution – Between one man and one woman.) = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

33. A person who - Does not believe in the Inspiration of Scripture = a HERETIC or {“AAA”}

34. A
Person who - believes you must speak in tongues in order to be saved. = a HERETIC

35.
A Person
who - believes that you must be Baptized (in water) in order to be saved. = a HERETIC

36.
A Person who - believes that you must observe Saturday in order to be saved. = a HERETIC

37.
A Person who - believes that you must observe The Law in order to be saved. = a HERETIC

38.
A Person who - believes that you must be a member of their church to be in the Bride of Christ. = a HERETIC

39. A
Person who - believes that there are two churches (one in Heaven & one on earth) = a HERETIC

40.
A Person who - believes that a pastor is the head of the "local" church = a HERETIC

There are many more examples, and some of the brethren might differ with me on some of my definitions, but these should suffice. A heretick may be “saved” but he or she is “skating on mighty thin ice”! I’m glad that God knows people’s hearts, since often times I have a difficult time determining the difference between a heretic and an apostate.

Quote:
1 Kings 8:39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men.

2 Chronicles 6:30 Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men.
As you can see, a heretick is “awfully close” to being an Apostate, or an Atheist, or an Agnostic, and sometimes it’s very difficult to distinguish between a heretick and an apostate. That is why we are commanded to REJECT a heretick (after the first and second admonition).

Quote:
Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
There is nothing to be gained from a heretick, no matter how much “good” he may have done (or is doing). People who are hereticks are “subverted”, and they often “subvert” those people they come in contact with. That is why we are commanded to have nothing to do with hereticks.

Quote:
Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
I have had “differences” with some brethren on this Forum over: “rightly dividing” the word; the "mysteries" of God; the two Kingdoms (the Kingdom of God & the kingdom of heaven); the “rapture”; the Great Tribulation; Dispensationalism; the different Judgments; whether a Christian can drink wine; when the soul “begins”; interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:9-12; the difference between “faith” and “belief”; the use of Dictionaries and Greek and Hebrew Lexicons in determining the meaning of a Bible word; the so-called Gap theory; Interracial Marriage; the Inspiration of the King James Bible; the difference between the Jews in Israel and elsewhere; and other matters or issues from the Bible. Just because they differ with me on these issues, I do not consider them to be hereticks and I would hope they feel the same about me.

I do not believe that every single difference between Christians constitutes “Heresy”. I can only conclude then, that a heretick is someone who professes to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Bible, but who rejects, twists, or changes a major Bible doctrine that is openly declared and clearly defined by Scripture, and recognized, understood, and accepted by the vast majority of genuine Bible believers.

I do not consider a Christian who does not believe in the King James Bible, just exactly the same way that I do, a heretick. I do not have power or “dominion” over other Christians. And I do not seek to dictate or control them.

Quote:
2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
I study the Bible and try to determine the truth from my studies. I may try to persuade others if I perceive that they may be in error, but in the end each of us is responsible to God to:
Quote:
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” [2 Timothy 2:15]
Each of us must determine for ourselves (from our studies of the Scriptures and seeking the Holy Spirit’s guidance) “what is truth”. I cannot decide for someone else “what is truth”, each of us must be “fully persuaded” in our own mind.

Quote:
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
I don’t want to be “ashamed” when I come face to face with my Saviour because I didn’t “rightly divide the word of truth”. I want God’s approval, and that is why I am extremely careful and diligent in my Bible studies – trying not to jump to unfounded conclusions or engaging in supposition, assumption, conjecture, or speculation.

I try real hard to avoid having my schooling, culture, country, or society, the media, or the world, influence my understanding of the Scriptures. I do not believe that a person can “know all there is to know” about Bible doctrine in this life, but we can try to embrace doctrine that is as pure and as sound as is humanly possible.

Someday (soon, I hope) I will come "face to face" with my Saviour, and when I do, I will no longer "know in part". Some day (soon, I hope) I will "know, even as also I am known". Someday (soon, I hope) I will be able to see "clearly", instead of "through a glass darkly".

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Until the day that My Lord returns I am determined to KNOW the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I am going to rely on the King James Bible as my sole source for "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" and it shall be my FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice. And all the "naysayers" and Sophists in the world are not going to affect me in the slightest. Let the chips fall where they may!

Last eve I paused besides a blacksmith’s door,

And heard the anvil ring, the vesper chime.

And looking in, I saw upon the floor,
Old hammers, worn with beating years of time.

“How many anvils have you had?” said I,
“To wear and batter out those hammers so?”
“Just one,” said he, and then with twinkling eye,
“The anvil wears the hammers out, you know.”

And so I thought, the Anvil of God’s Word,
For ages, skeptics blows have beat upon.
But tho the sound of falling blows is heard,
The Anvil still remains – the hammer’s gone!

HAMMER AWAY, YE REBEL BANDS!
YOUR HAMMERS BREAK – GOD’S ANVIL STANDS!

Last edited by George; 12-13-2008 at 06:18 PM.
  #50  
Old 12-13-2008, 06:01 PM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
 
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The Trinity,
1John 5v 7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Not sure how one would think otherwise.

Thanks George.
 

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