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  #31  
Old 07-15-2009, 05:43 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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The whole point is that anyone who is trusting in the Blood of Christ rather than bringing an animal sacrifice to cover sin is a dispensationalist. In the same way that anyone who observes the first day of the week rather than the seventh.
Are you saying that ALL of the 10 commandments given to Moses are still in effect?
Nevermind I re read that you stated moral laws. To be perfectly honest I regret even writing the above reply as I have no intention of discussing Calvin's teaching's.
God never changes, his dealings with men do.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2009, 05:49 AM
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What does Abraham hear in Genesis 18? "In thee all nations shall be blessed". That's not the same gospel you and I hear. And if you want to say it is the gospel of God, then how was Abraham saved (imputed righteousness in Genesis 15) before he even heard it (the quote in Galatians is from Genesis 18).
Part of the Gospel that you and I hear is the blessing of the nations. Prior to Christ Israel was God's instrument of salvation, now it is the world-wide Church...into all nations. Satan has been bound precisely for that reason - that he should not deceive the nations any more...

Rev 20:2-3
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


It is the blessing of Abraham that comes to the nations/Gentiles...

Gal 3:14 - That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


God did not give the inheritance to Abraham by the law...

Gal 3:18 - For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


Abraham did not look for an earthly inheritance ...

Heb 11:9-10
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
  #33  
Old 07-15-2009, 05:52 AM
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larryb larryb is offline
 
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Nevermind I re read that you stated moral laws. To be perfectly honest I regret even writing the above reply as I have no intention of discussing Calvin's teaching's.
God never changes, his dealings with men do.
I'm sure Calvin would be quite beside himself if he knew folks thought that he created the teachings that i have posted here.
  #34  
Old 07-15-2009, 06:11 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Not that I assume what you are "teaching" IS DIRECTLY from John Calvin, what I am "saying" is that It is clear that you approach the Bible from a reformed perspective, that stems from the teaching of John Calvin, I personally REJECT all 5 points of Calvinism and have no intention of discusing the teaching of it with anyone unless it is in refutation of it. You, by Gods "free will" can choose to believe whatever you wish, that your business and the Lords.

The 4th Commandment was part of the ceremonial law given exclusively to Old testament Israel

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

When Christ died on the cross, the veil of the JEWISH temple was rent in twain, this signified the NEW covenant between God and His people. Ceremonial laws were abolished, they were a reminder of Gods divine truths to Israel.
The "sabbath" is NOT to be observed today, its as simple as ..

Colossians 2:16,17, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ

Eating swine flesh, circumcision, sabbath, and other jewish ceremonial laws were nailed to my Saviours Cross on Calvarys Hill. Christ FULLFILLED the sabbath and I am "Resting in him"

If the sabbath is to be observed "today" then some Godly brethren here on this forum who "work" on the sabbath, should by all accounts be put to death

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

As far as I am concerned the sabbath is gone, I am not to keep it, it was meant for Israel, Christ fulfilled it for me, he is my "rest"
Gods moral laws are to be kept, but the 1 ceremonial law was nailed to the Lords cross.
  #35  
Old 07-15-2009, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
Not that I assume what you are "teaching" IS DIRECTLY from John Calvin, what I am "saying" is that It is clear that you approach the Bible from a reformed perspective, that stems from the teaching of John Calvin, I personally REJECT all 5 points of Calvinism and have no intention of discusing the teaching of it with anyone unless it is in refutation of it.
Yes, i am Reformed and not dispensational in my theology.
No, that teaching does not stem from the teachings of John Calvin. It would be more accurate to say that it stems from Augustine, but even more accurate to say that its source is the Scripture itself.

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Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
The 4th Commandment was part of the ceremonial law given exclusively to Old testament Israel
Strange how 1 out of 10 commandments would be only for Israel and ceremonial in nature.

Consider that the Sabbath rest was given at creation, before the fall, and not just to Israel but to all of mankind in Adam. That's why the commandment in Ex 20 starts with "remember"...it is not a command that started with the nation of Israel at Sinai, but rather one that had been in existence from the beginning.
  #36  
Old 07-15-2009, 07:08 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Rev 20:2-3 has not taken place yet. revelation is a book of prophecy John wrote in 90AD concerning the Lords Day which is his great day of wrath.

for Israel never had a division between ceremonial Civil and moral laws and commandments they ALL went together. anyone who taught otherwise is not being true to God Word and would be considered a heretic by Israel for doing so.

LarryB's posts are SDA teaching. We don't put our trust in Augustine or any other Alexandrian cultist. or any man for that matter. We put our trust in teh Pure unadulterated King James Bible.

I am not a religious person. I am a spiritual person who understands the spiritual things of God.
  #37  
Old 07-15-2009, 07:39 AM
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larryb larryb is offline
 
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Rev 20:2-3 has not taken place yet. revelation is a book of prophecy John wrote in 90AD concerning the Lords Day which is his great day of wrath.
Interesting how you look upon your statement as being fact though the Scripture does not claim it as fact.

Rev 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John


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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
for Israel never had a division between ceremonial Civil and moral laws and commandments they ALL went together. anyone who taught otherwise is not being true to God Word and would be considered a heretic by Israel for doing so.
Israel did have a division. The King was permitted to execute justice based on the moral law, but was not permitted to execute the ceremonial law...that was the priests job. So there certainly was a division.

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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
LarryB's posts are SDA teaching. We don't put our trust in Augustine or any other Alexandrian cultist. or any man for that matter. We put our trust in teh Pure unadulterated King James Bible.
That's simply not true. SDA came long after the teaching that i adhere to - the teaching of Scripture. You must be either unaware of SDA teachings or unaware of my understanding of Scripture teaching.

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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
I am not a religious person. I am a spiritual person who understands the spiritual things of God.
That's a shame that you're not religious...i guess that means you don't have to adhere to...

James 1:26-27
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
  #38  
Old 07-15-2009, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by larryb View Post
Quite a mischaracterization since Covenantal Theology does not promote the practice of animal sacrifice.
Covenant Theology is absolute garbage and heresay...the church never replaced Israel and God is NOT finished with the Jews...I believe Romans 9,10,11 are clear and countless other Bible prophecies that reformers seem to have swept under the rug. Calvinism is just one big mess...bottom line.

I'm sorry but this is one of the reasons why I absolutely reject and detest Calvinism...They hold the writings of the reformers as inspired and infallible and also...they exalt these men to the point of worship...Augustine, John Calvin, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, RC Sproul, James White and on and on it goes.

No offense Larry but you obviously have an agenda here and that's to spread your reformed theology...but I call it a doctrine of devils, I'm not buying what you're selling, thanks anyways, I'll stick with the word of God and not man's opinion and interpretation.

It's quite scary.
  #39  
Old 07-15-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by larryb View Post
One must be careful to read distinctions in the Scripture where they are warranted. There is a difference between the shadows of the OT that pointed to Christ (e.g. animal sacrifices), which were ceremonial laws...and the moral laws as summed up in the 10 commandments, which are still in effect in the new administration of the covenant of grace.
Allow me to quote James Knox in his new book The Law and Rightly Dividing The Word Reconsidered (pages 61-62),

"In a desperate attempt to cling to the law, many ministers and some denominations have tried to divide the law into sections or divisions. While we cannot list all the many ways their arguments are phrased, one example will suffice.

"We are told that the law of the Lord is the ten commandments and that the law of Moses includes the ordinances, offerings, feast days, and the dietary laws, etc. They say that Jesus' finished work did not include the ten commandments but that only the law of Moses was fulfilled at the cross.

The easiest way to put this error to bed is to show that the terms are used interchangeably by the Holy Spirit. Luke 2:22-24 says, And when the days of her purification according to the LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the LAW OF THE LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the LAW OF THE LORD...

"Notice in the passage that Mary is said to have taken the baby Jesus to the temple to present Him to the Lord, in obedience to the LAW OF THE LORD and to offer a sacrifice according to the LAW OF THE LORD. Such a requirement is not found in the ten commandments but in the (so called) law of Moses. Again we read: And when they had performed all things according to the LAW OF THE LORD, they returned into Galilee... (Luke 2:39).

"One may find this same argument stated as, 'Jesus died to save us from the ceremonial law but we are still under the moral law.' The scriptures studed in this section show that such a position cannot be supported by the word of God.

"The believer is not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14). We are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), free from the law (Romans 8:2), and dead to the law (Galatians 2:19). Praise the Lord!"
  #40  
Old 07-15-2009, 08:54 AM
JOHN G JOHN G is offline
 
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This has been a dispute from the beginning between believers.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing,

No one has ever kept the Law of Moses except our King Jesus!

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Here is the four commandments for the Gentiles.

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

It is good news to be saved by grace and not by works of the law!

Act 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
 

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