[Mind and Body]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

But we do not need Geocentricity to prove or disprove anything.
We have the inerrant Word of God brother!
Evolutionists will not accept God on the basis of "evidence."
They have a heart problem, not an evidence problem.

But no evolutionist is a Bible-believing Christian, Brother, and if we can show them the scientific case for a Creator, we can then tie in Biblical truths, can we not? We can use science and the signs of the design therein, and then Biblically demonstrate that all signs point to Christ. This is the purpose of Creationist ministries.

Also, Bro., I think you'd be suprised about how well the average scientist is protected from hearing anything about any alternative for evolution. See, Darwinists (firmly) control almost all refereed biological scientific journals, and many of the people at Creation.com and TrueOrigin.org speak of having their research denied publication for a plethora of reasons. Which leaves places like CMI and AiG to publish their own journals, havens for YECs who wouldn't get published elsewhere, but what does the average scientist do if he picks up a Journal of Creation or an Answers magazine? He dismisses them as "Bible-thumpers" and tosses it in the trash. So it is up to Christians [predominately] to show these Darwinists the truth that they don't here elsewhere. Because they don't see evidence because they're (as well as the entire theory of neo-Darwinism) protected from scientific blows by the establishment; and they deride the Bible, we can lead them to Christ if we show the evidence to them.

Oh, and this is a link to the Geocentricity page: here.

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

But no evolutionist is a Bible-believing Christian, Brother, and if we can show them the scientific case for a Creator, we can then tie in Biblical truths, can we not? We can use science and the signs of the design therein, and then Biblically demonstrate that all signs point to Christ. This is the purpose of Creationist ministries.

Well, your original comment was:
"if we can provide evidence for geocentricity, then we can discredit the Big Bang Theory."

The problem is, they will come up with another theory!
A good example of this can be seen in the Ben Stein movie called EXPELLED, when Stein interviews the popular atheist Richard Dawkins. (pretty good movie by the way, those who have not seen it can rent it at Blockbuster).

I agree with the need and value of Creationist ministries, (my own threads regarding evolution will prove this) however I'm not sure Geocentricity is going to make an evolutionist fall to his knees and repent. Many of the men on this forum don't even buy off on Geocentricity. The Big Bang Theory is not an excuse for unbelief. In the end, the evolutionist has been surrounded by much "God evidence" from his birth, and he has no excuse. (Romans 1:20) He CHOOSES darkness over light, regardless of what the fossil record shows. Atheists choose to ACTIVELY reject the God of creation (along with His evidence for creation) on a daily basis---it has more to do with their sin than their theories. Their HEARTS are controlling their minds (Proverbs 23:7), that's why I said they have a heart problem.

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

Also, Bro., I think you'd be suprised about how well the average scientist is protected from hearing anything about any alternative for evolution. See, Darwinists (firmly) control almost all refereed biological scientific journals, and many of the people at Creation.com and TrueOrigin.org speak of having their research denied publication for a plethora of reasons.

No I'm not surprised at all I agree with you brother, and I am well aware of the "lock" on higher learning in the scientific community. A product of the public school system, I have debated and witnessed to so-called evolutionists for 25 years, and I do think all this debate has its place. I just don't think all creationists are in your Geocentricity boat, and I'm not sure Geocentricity is the best way to prove anything about science or the Bible!

I think there are MUCH BETTER arguments for a Creator without going to a subject which is going to split your Creationists down the middle. I already gave you links to Apologetics Press which was certainly not promoting the theory, here is AIG's (one of the world's most poplular Creation ministries) review of Geocentricity, they imply that it's "gobbledegook":
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v...ism_review.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v...eocentrism.asp

The Institute for Creation Research (ICR) offers the following thought in their article:
"the Bible contains no explicit teaching on this matter."
http://www.icr.org/article/geocentricity-creation/

By the way, that same article from AIG also appears on the Creationist website you linked, and concludes by stating, "Creationists should distance themselves from even the best defense of geocentrism":
http://creation.com/geocentric-gobbledegook

Listen up: I'm not saying the theory is wrong, nor am I saying Bouw is correct. It just seems to me that Geocentricity is hardly the best ammo for a witness to an atheist or evolutionist. See my point?

[Mind and Body]

Alright, brother, you have your opinion, and I have mine. I just think that it would be an excellent example of God's cosmological preference of the earth if we could provide evidence of the earth's stability. One of the biggest attacks on Geocentricity that I've seen was the Creation Technical Journal's Danny Faulkner's article, but Bouw wrote a rebuttal that more or less lays out his whole argument. You could give it a look.

But we are all brothers in Christ, even if some are Gap Theorists, some are Progressive Creationists, some are (God forbid...) Theistic Evolutionists...although we can disagree with these people and have the Bible on our side, we can focus instead on reaching the lost and remember the security of our salvation and be kind to one another. My friend is a Day-Age Creationist (and a former Catholic) but now he is a great Christian. I know he's wrong, but Satan loves it when believers quarrel, because it prevents evangelism. We pass out tracts, we help out in our community, and are great friends. We need to focus on unity in Christ, and not just on scientific and interpretation issues. I've seen too many Churches break up because the preacher became an Old-Earther or an Armenianist or a Calvinist and people who disagreed would just leave. I've been a member of a Church...well, let's just say that I should have left when Jesus did, because He had left a long time ago! And it's always this kind of thing.

I hear ya, that's why I stated back in post no 6 that I usually won't even argue about these issues. I have made it a point to politely rebuke some brothers on other forums who come in swinging and try to tell everyone else they are wrong, being all dogmatic about a theory or whatever. I'm not sure that being dogmatic on some of these things is edifying to the body of believers, because it can be very divisive and I think we need to pick our fights carefully. I think perhaps some Christians fall into a trap of sorts by thinking they HAVE to take a position on something like the Gap Theory or Geocentricity, when in reality it's just not that important to our core cause. So, I don't allow myself to get pinned down on it. But I agree with you that Creation Ministries are very worthwhile and I do enjoy many of those sites and what they bring to the table against the religion of evolution.