[Luke]

What works must one do to lose their salvation? How many sins?

Lust? Done it
Look at pornography? Done it
Hate? Done it
Lie? Done it
Steal? Done it

I'm not boasting of my sins here. I am saying that Christ still has me in his arms, despite what I have done after trusting Him for salvation. And He continues to sanctify me daily. He saved me, He didn't set me on probation. I have no excuse to sin, but praise the Lord for Micah 7

Mic 7:8 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me.
Mic 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the LORD, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.

When I fail, God will chasten me, but He will bring me up again. He will plead my cause, because IT IS FINISHED.

Let's go back to my sins:

According to James 2:10 - JUST ONE SIN will make me guilty of the whole law

Also, compare these two scriptures:

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul was an HABITUAL SINNER. Did he lose his salvation?

Blasphemy on Holy Spirit? Hopefully not, because one time is enough.
Falling away from God? Hopefully not, but if you had not tasted the goodness of the Spirit, you can still return.

[Luke]

Friend, have you tasted of the powers of the world to come? Spoken in tongues, witnessed healings, excorcisms, raising the dead - Have you seen the wonders that Jesus Christ and the Apostles wrought while on earth, to give signs to the jews?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

NOT AT ALL. You have not tasted of the powers of the world to come. You know nothing of the millennium except what the word tells you. You have had no experience with it. You were not made a partaker of the Holy Ghost, in the sense of having HANDS LAID ON YOU (Hebrews 6:2).

This verse doesn't apply to you.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Falling away from God? Hopefully not, but if you had not tasted the goodness of the Spirit, you can still return.

What does this even mean? You can backslide, but as long as you weren't saved you can return?

So God has more mercy on unregenerate sinners than He does on His own children that are in His Son's body??

The requirements are not as stringent as you make them seem:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, ― so God gave them knowledge.
and have tasted of the heavenly gift, ― salvation is The heavenly gift.
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, ― so they were baptized in the Holy Ghost.
And have tasted the good word of God, ― so they read and internalized God's Word.
and the powers of the world to come, ― this one is the only one that is dubious. But, read on.
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; ― so if they fall away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance. But have you not ever considered that if someone satisfied the first four, but not that last one, while it might not be impossible to renew them unto repentance, it might be difficult? Have you ever thought that perhaps you did indeed satisfy the fifth condition, but you just did not realize it was a power of the world to come? The main remaining ambiguity is „fall away“ ― but I think you and I do agree on that one.

Okay, so this is where we discuss the meaning of „fall away“. My understanding of it, „fall away“ is to „leave the church“, or „recant the faith“, not „backslide“. So if someone believes Christianity, then leaves for Islam, and decides to return to Christianity, that is fine. But if someone believes Christianity, satisfies the abovementioned criteria, and then leaves for Islam, there is no coming back to Christianity. He might try Judaism if he wants to try to keep his salvation.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

and have tasted of the heavenly gift, ― salvation is The heavenly gift.

Is it always? The word gift appears in Hebrews several times. Many times it is referring to offerings to God, but there is one that speaks of gifts to us. And funnily enough, it is talking about signs and wonders and divers miracles.

Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Elsewhere, we see the laying on of hands referred to as the gift of God

Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, ― so they were baptized in the Holy Ghost.

Just as I was saying - they recieved the gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. The gift is the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that makes his abode with us. It is the outward working of His power - tongues etc.

And have tasted the good word of God, ― so they read and internalized God's Word.

But they had the OT for 2000 years prior, and the NT wasn't available to them when Hebrews was written. No, this word of God to them was the preaching of the Kingdom that Peter preached to the Hebrews.

and the powers of the world to come, ― this one is the only one that is dubious. But, read on.

It's the clearest one of them all!

[Luke]

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

He might try Judaism if he wants to try to keep his salvation.

And herein is the Lordship Salvation position in it's simplest form!


You are very confused.

You say that Hebrew 6:4-6 refers to a saved person that is lost. The 4 things given are what saved people have. So those who are enlightened, tasted, powers etc.. are saved. You are saying they can leave the church, backslide, and come back, but only if they don't fulfill those things.. but that would make them unsaved. You are making no sense.

You just said - A saved man can not believe, and go to Islam, and come back to Jesus, but only if he was not saved before. If he was saved, he has lost it and can never come back. It's double talk. It's worse than double talk. It makes no sense.

Here is what you are saying.

I have a car. I drive the car. I crash the car. I can only get my insurance to pay for it if I never had the car in the first place. But if I never had it, how did I drive it? and how did I crash it?

Okay, but notice the difference between „gifts“ and „the gift“. So I address the passages that say „the gift“. In Acts 8:20, I contest that „the gift“ is the Holy Ghost. Because 'twas the Holy Ghost that gave Peter the power to perform all those miracles. As is the case in Acts 2:38. But then it is covered by „and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost“. So saying „the gift“ is the Holy Ghost does not add any restrictions to what is necessary to satisfy those 5 conditions.
EDIT:
Regarding your explanations of what those 5 things mean, okay, you do not contradict my point of what is necessary to lose salvation.
Regarding your second comment, those 5 things are not necessary to get saved. All that is necessary to get saved is to to believe with the heart unto righteousness, and to confess with the mouth unto salvation. Those 5 things are what are necessary to ensure that if you fall away, you cannot come back.

[Luke]

Well, I can't make head or tails of what you are saying, so I bow out of this debate. Someone else can take over. I think what I have said can stand on it's own, since I compared scripture with scripture to establish any definitions.

God bless.