Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:55 AM
LIVNBYFAITH
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Default Help.... The JW's are knocking!!

I would like some help, most all the threads and postings I have read I agree with, so I am entrusting fellow brother's and sisters in Christ to help me with this problem. I am by no MEANS a Bible wiz. I do read, study, and apply myself to God's word (KJV). But lately I am dealing with a family memeber who is a Jehovahs witness, and I can't answer all her questions. First, They believe Jesus (our savior) is not God, they say "he is a god" and they do not believe in the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Holy spirit, all being one) I need some scripture (KJV) to put this question Down!. Second, they do not believe in Hell. I have found scripture to prove there is a Hell, (mainly in Rev.) but they say that this is just a "Version of scripture". I get so down on myself when I don't have the answers. I pray about it, but sometimes I still feel I am fighting a losing battle. If anyone can help me I would greatly appriciate it. Please pray for me in this endevor, for this is a family member that is lost, and I do care and want her to find salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. Thanks a bunch!
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2008, 01:37 AM
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Paladin54 Paladin54 is offline
 
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John 1:3. They missed this when they were perverting the Bible.

Draw a box. Divide it in half "Things made by the Word/ things made by the Word."

now put a penny and tell the JW to put it where the Word is supposed to be.

Use the first couple verses of John 1, especially verse one, even though they ass "a god" the verse still says in the beginning the Word was with God. and you will have them stumped.

I am praying for you in your efforts. That's just a little trick I picked up.
  #3  
Old 02-24-2008, 03:11 AM
fundy
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Default J.W's Q&A

Hi LIVNBYFAITH,

Your problem with getting the message across to your JW family member can be remedied...but it will take effort on your part to equip yourself.

When I joined the army, I was issued a rifle. In my 17 year old hands it was just a lump of wood and metal, but by the time I had learned how to use it, it was a weapon. The rifle hadnt changed, I had, or rather, my knowledge of it had increased. Not only had I been taught to use the rifle, I had been made to study the various potential enemies that we may have had to go to war with. Their tactics, weapons, history and such. Information that would make the use of my weapon more effective.

You have in your hands a Bible...the Word of God...you must learn more about it in order to be able to use it as a weapon. You also must learn about the beliefs and doctrines of the various cults that you will come into contact with.

Once you know more about them, you will be able to use the appropriate scripture to combat their doctrine.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

God considers his word to be a sword, a weapon. Read carefully Heb 4:12 and see how powerful Gods weapon is. Keep in mind that God has placed the ultimate weapon in your hands, it is invincible.

The method that I use to combat J.W's when they come to our door, or when we go the theirs, is this;

Firstly know that they do not believe Jesus to be God in the flesh, merely a created being. You must reveal the true identity of Christ to the JW so they can be saved.

The JW's are brainwashed and have a set of questions they are trained to ask, along with the "correct" answers. Do not fall into the trap of answering their questions, you must get them to attempt to answer yours, and keep them off balance.

Secondly, know that they consider the KJV to be the word of God. The average J.W does not know why their cult stopped using the KJV in favour of the NWT, so getting them to defer to the KJV in a Bible Q & A time is usually easy. Once they have admitted to believing the KJV it will be impossible for them to ignore the scripture you will show them and how it contradicts what is written in their NWT.

Ask the J.W to read Deut 32:39 in your KJV. Then ask them ask them how many gods Jehovah says are with him....answer...none.

Ask the J.W. to go to John 1:1-3 in the KJV and ask them how many Gods are described there ...answer ..1

Now go to John 1:1 -3 in the NWT and ask them if another god is being described as being with Jehovah...answer...Yes,there are 2 gods described there..NWT " the word was with God and the word was a god"

Ask the J.W, why the NWT contradicts the book that they only just agreed was the word of God?

Again using Deut 32:39 ask the J.W to describe the characteristics, and powers that God attributes to himself....then turn to John 10:28-30 and ask how Jesus can claim to have the same abilities as Jehovah, and then declare that "I and my Father are one" ie; the same!!

Turn to Deut 5:6-7 and read Jehovas commands regarding the worship of him and him alone.

Turn then to John 20-26:29 and ask why Jesus, a devout Jew, would ignore the scripture and accept Thomas' declaration of worship to him? Was he stealing Jehovas position as declared in Deut chap 5 , or was he indeed the Lord God in the flesh as described in John 1:14 ,1 Tm 3:16 and Phi 2:6?

There are many many more examples of scripture like those above. Its a lot of fun finding them. Remember to put cross refernces in your Bile so that you can easily flip back and forth during the Q & A.

Hope this helps and gives you an idea on how to approach further conversations.

God Bless,

Fundy.
  #4  
Old 02-24-2008, 09:15 AM
ok.book.guy
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A former JW who got saved said this was the verse the Lord used to reach her:
Heb 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, "Thy throne O God", is for ever and ever. . ."

whether or not they capitalize Son, we still have God saying "Thy throne, O God, is for ever. . ."
  #5  
Old 02-24-2008, 04:59 PM
LIVNBYFAITH
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Wink Thanks

You guys are GREAT! thanks for the verses, and inspiration on how to prayerfully handle this situation. Fundy, I appriciate your passion for the Bible, and knowledge of verses. This is truly what I am striving to do, learn my weapon inside and out! I have read the Bible, but to recall all the places where verses are is difficult for me. I am truly trying, but when these questions arose I was not prepared. Now I have some ammo to start with, and with studying His word, and praying, I will win this battle, and lead her to salvation. I truly appriciate the time you have devoted to this issue, you have truly helped me.

Paladin, I will use the Penny Idea. Seems like it would be a fun ice breaker into the conversation of true salvation.


Thanks LIVNBYFAITH!
  #6  
Old 02-27-2008, 12:17 AM
fundy
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Hi LIVNBYFAITH,

Glad I could be of help.

1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.


Let me know how you are getting along with your discussion with her.

Fundy
  #7  
Old 02-28-2008, 12:30 PM
evstevemd
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1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Question:what is being expressed here?
Ans: Mystery (something that baffles understanding and cannot be explained)

Question1:Who was manifest in flesh?
Ans: God

Question2:What God did after being justified in spirit?
Ans:was preached unto gentiles

Question3:what the last phrase says?
Ans:received up into glory.

then turn to these scriptures:
Question4:Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Note--> THE WORD WAS GOD

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Note-->Word was made flesh and word was full of grace and truth

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Compare verses 14 and 17 and ask him/her who is being talked of?

Question5:Who did Paul preach?
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Who did Peter preach?
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Ans:Jesus
Repeat Question2 quoting 1Ti 3:16
Ask Him Who is being talked in these verses
If he/she is honest answer is Jesus!

Question6:
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Ask Him/Her Question3 quoting 1Ti 3:16
Who is God that is being discussed in 1Ti 3:16
There fish in the net FOR JESUS!

Don't forget to give feedback
Ev. Steve
  #8  
Old 02-28-2008, 02:09 PM
sting of truth
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here is a couple other verses, since they think Jesus was crucified with his hands above his head andthey used one nail in his hands

Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his <B>hands</B> the print of the <b>nails</b>, and put my finger into the print of the <B>nails</B>, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

furthermore in that passage you see Jesus touching and being touched, a spirit don't do that, not only that, but you also see Jesus eating, spirits don't eat..

not only that you see Jesus being worshipped as God and also in another passage he was worshipped, but look what he told satan

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, <b>Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. </b>

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshiped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshiped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshiped him, saying, Lord, help me.

john 1:1 in the jw bible don't read like a kjv, it says Jesus was <b>A</b> god
kjv-Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

not to mention the nwt matches the niv as far as missing words and verses.. most of these if not all are covered in this table http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.html


here is a free online book you can read- http://www.chick.com/reading/books/135/135cont.asp
  #9  
Old 02-28-2008, 03:50 PM
Jot&Tittle
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Here are some of my favorites. Hope it helps. Cults are hard to reach!

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have showed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;
3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
  #10  
Old 03-01-2008, 03:01 AM
ploughboy
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Default A Better Approach

This is a good approach.

this is a copy I came across a while ago.

"Encounters between Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses typically revolve around a discussion of deity. The reason for this is twofold. First, this is the area where Watchtower theology deviates most dramatically from orthodox Christianity. In contrast to the Trinitarian concept of one God in three Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--the JWs have been taught to believe that God the Father alone is "Jehovah," the only true God; that Jesus Christ is Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God; and that the Holy Spirit is neither God nor a person, but rather God's impersonal "active force." Second, the subject of deity is a frequent confrontational focus because both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians (at least those who like to witness to JWs) feel confident and well-prepared to defend their stand and attack the opposing viewpoint.

Due to the profound theological differences, such discussions often take the form of spiritual trench warfare--a long series of arguments and counterarguments, getting nowhere and ending in mutual frustration. But this need not be the case, especially if the Christian will "become all things to all men" by taking a moment to put himself in the Witnesss shoes, so to speak (see 1 Corinthians 9:22). In the JW's mind he himself is a worshiper of the true God of the Bible, while you are a lost soul who has been misled by the devil into worshiping a pagan three-headed deity. He is, no doubt, quite sincere in these beliefs and feels both threatened and offended by the doctrine of the Trinity. To give any serious consideration to your arguments in support of the Trinity is simply unthinkable to the JW; he would be sinning against Jehovah God to entertain such a thought.

So, in order to make any headway with the Witness, it is necessary to bridge the gap--to find common ground that will enable him to rethink his theology. Rather than plunging into a defense of "the doctrine of the Trinity," which can be mind-boggling even to a Christian, take things one step at a time.

A good first step would be to consider the question, "Is Jesus Christ really an angel?" It will be frightening to the Jehovah's Witness to open this cherished belief of his to critical re-examination, but no nearly as frightening as to start off discussing evidence that God is triune.

Since the Watchtower Society speaks of "Jesus Christ, whom we understand from the Scriptures to be Michael the archangel" (The Watchtower, February 15, 1979, p. 31), put the JW on the spot and ask him to show you "the Scriptures" that say Jesus is Michael. There are none. The Watchtower Society New World Translation (NWT) mentions Michael five times as: 1) "one of the foremost princes" (Dan. 10:13); 2) "the prince of [Daniel's] people" (Dan. 10:21); 3) "the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel's] people" (Dan. 12:1); 4) "the archangel" who "had a difference with the devil and was disputing about Moses body" but "did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms" (Jude 9); and 5) a participant in heavenly conflict when "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon" (Rev. 12:7).


Ask the Jehovah's Witness which one of these verses says that Michael is Jesus Christ. Help him to see that it is necessary to read Scripture plus a complicated Watchtower argument to reach that conclusion. Rather than being merely "one of the foremost princes," Jesus Christ is "Lord of lords and King of kings" (Rev. 17:14, NWT) and is "far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come" (Ephesians 1:21, NWT). And, unlike "Michael who did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9, Today's English Version), Jesus Christ displayed His authority over the devil when He freely commanded him, "Go away, Satan!" (Matthew 4:10, NWT).

In arguing that Jesus is Michael the archangel, the Watchtower Society also points to another verse that does not use the name Michael but says that "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangels voice and with God's trumpet..." (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NWT).

However, the expression "with an archangels voice" simply means that the archangel, like God's trumpet, will herald the coming of the Lord, not that the Lord is an archangel. Point out to the JW that none of the verses he has attempted to use as proof-texts even comes close to stating that Jesus Christ is Michael the archangel. In fact, Scripture clearly teaches the opposite: namely, that the Son of God is superior to the angels. The entire first chapter of Hebrews is devoted to this theme. Have the Witness read Hebrews chapter one aloud with you, and, as you do so, interrupt to point out the sharp contrast between angels and the Son of God. "For to what angel did God ever say, Thou are my Son...? And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, Let all Gods angels worship him" (vv. 5,6, Revised Standard Version).

Remind the JW that angels consistently refuse worship ("Be careful! Do not do that! ...Worship God," Revelation 22:8,9, NWT), but the Fathers command concerning the Son is, "Let all Gods angels worship him" (Hebrews 1:6). That is how the Watchtowers own New World Translation read for some 20 years until, in 1970, the Society changed it to read "do obeisance to him" instead of "worship him"--part of their consistent campaign to eliminate from their Bible all references to the deity of Christ. (See John 10:36 comment.)

True, you have not yet proved the "doctrine of the Trinity" in this discussion. But you have laid a good foundation by giving the Jehovah's Witness convincing evidence that Jesus Christ is not an angel (he is now faced with the question of who Jesus really is), and you have shown that the Watchtower Society has misled him, even resorting to altering Scripture to do so. Now you are in a much better position to go on to present the gospel."


Author: David A. Reed, Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder. Excerpted from The Evidence Bible by Ray Comfort

Ploughboy
 

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