Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

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Old 03-10-2008, 09:32 PM
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Paladin54 Paladin54 is offline
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Default Let's talk about Erasmus.

This article was great for the defense of Erasmus, but it lacked in only two points in answering the accusations made by perversion defenders.

I'm told that Erasmus somewhere states that he wanted salvation bugt not without Mary. And although he criticized the church, he never left it. Why not?

#1. Did Erasmus really say that he wanted salvation but not without Mary? He agreed with Luther that salvation was by faith and not by works, so where does Mary come up in his thinking?
#2. Why didn't Erasmus ever leave the catholic church?
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Old 03-11-2008, 05:26 AM
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Don't know - but he wrote against their doctrines. I think many people in the Dark Ages were simply brainwashed to think that the RC church was the ONLY church, therefore they had no other option but to stick with it and try to change it from within. Even Luther never wanted to leave it - he was forced to when they sought to kill him.
Old 03-11-2008, 09:25 AM
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Biblestudent Biblestudent is offline
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Leaving a church is sometimes not the best option right away for a person who found the truth. If I were Erasmus or Luther, I might also stay where I am in order to convince people within the system of my newfound truth, and leave when all efforts fail.

Last edited by Biblestudent; 03-11-2008 at 09:27 AM.
Old 03-11-2008, 12:22 PM
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The Bible teaches separation from false teachings, false brethren, brethren in sin, etc. - so I believe Erasmus was wrong in staying in an apostate church, no matter how much he may have tried to justify it.
Old 03-11-2008, 12:50 PM
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i believe during that time, what erasmus was doing was already separating from RC. Maybe at that time, leaving the RC means you are a pagan or an islam believer, which i believe erasmus doesnt want to do. he doesnt much of a choice and where to what he did was he corrected the wrong doings of the RC...unlike now that there are already a lot of denominations people can go to...

Old 03-11-2008, 01:18 PM
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There were groups of believers outside of the RC church during the Dark Ages, such as the Waldensians and Anabaptists. Of course, people in the RC church are/were brainwashed to believe that it is the only true church, and salvation is only through it - therefore many won't even consider leaving it at all.
Old 03-11-2008, 01:40 PM
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It is normal for us to examine the behavior of others in the past, and determine how we might handle the same situation. The problem is that we cannot place ourselves in that situation. We do not have the information necessary to judge Erasmus' actions, based on current circumstances. We only know this. God used this man and others in similar positions to begin the process of moving the Word of God forward toward the complete, finished work that we have today in the KJB.
Old 03-11-2008, 09:24 PM
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I would say that Erasmus had hopes that his writings would transform the Catholic church...cause the Pope and his cronies to 'wake up" so to speak.

Also, being a Catholic would give him some credibility which probably kept Mr Infalibles goons from burning him at the stake.

Just speculation, mind you.

Old 03-16-2008, 05:55 PM
Why I Eyes Ya!
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#1. Did Erasmus really say that he wanted salvation but not without Mary? He agreed with Luther that salvation was by faith and not by works, so where does Mary come up in his thinking?

Just a few points in answer to the above:

1) I'd like to know where the evidence is for the claim that Erasmus wanted 'salvation but not without Mary'. Is this in any of his writings, or is it yet another myth (such as the 'Johannine comma' myth perpetuated by MV defenders)?

2) If he did indeed say this, was it prior to his work on the Textus Receptus? After all, Luther once believed in sacramentalism, etc, yet his theology later changed. Things I wrote prior to God's gracious salvation are now 'dung'.

3) If he did indeed say this, it'd be good to see the context in which he wrote it... the context may reveal a lot about what he meant.

4) Even if he did write this, who cares? God used king David (once a murderer/adulterer) to pen beautiful Psalms, Saul of Tarsus/Paul (once a murderer/blasphemer/persecutor) as Apostle to the Gentiles, etc. In fact, God the Holy Spirit used and inspired sinners to record His perfect Word. Is there any reason why God did not/could not use a fallible Erasmus to recover the true text of Scripture? No.

#2. Why didn't Erasmus ever leave the catholic church?

Again, Erasmus may mistakenly have believed in transforming the 'church' from the inside. He was offered high-ranking positions within the Roman 'church' and turned them down. As others have implied, he may have been 'safer' remaining within the 'outward show' of Rome (owing to the Papal persecutions), but this is only a guess.

What we can be sure of is this: Erasmus recovered the true text of God's Word that, as a result, has bought countless sinners to the Lord Jesus Christ. This cannot be claimed of the MVs. Erasmus wasn't perfect, but God mightily used him, as He would us all.

In summary, the two arguments used by MV defenders are chaff. Is this REALLY the best they've got??? lol!

God Bless

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