Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-10-2008, 11:37 AM
atlas's Avatar
atlas atlas is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 463
Default Interracial marriage?

Guys,


What do you think about interracial marriage?

Here is some scripture to jump start the topic.

Quote:
Nehemiah 13:23-27

23 In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab:

24 And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.

25 And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.

26 Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin.

27 Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?

Atlas
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #2  
Old 11-10-2008, 12:21 PM
Brother Tim's Avatar
Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 864
Default

So you would have joined Aaron and Miriam against Moses?

Quote:
Numbers 12:1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
  #3  
Old 11-10-2008, 12:25 PM
Brother Tim's Avatar
Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 864
Default

NOTE TO ALL:
The Scriptures NEVER speak of separate races.
  #4  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:45 PM
atlas's Avatar
atlas atlas is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 463
Default

Tim,


I Kings 11:1-8

1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:

2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.

3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.

6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.

8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.

King Solomon was a good man, he was God's man. He even wrote three books in the Bible, Proverbs, S.O.S and the Book of Ecc.

So we all know for a fact that Solomon was God's man. Any man that helped write part of the Bible was God's man.

Now lets see how and why he fell from God's fellowship and blessings.

1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:

Here is where it all starts. He liked “ strange women, “ now we know who the Moabites, Ammonites are. Now we all know who the daughter of Pharaoh was also. Now lets look at strange women in the Bible. It only come up 3 times One time is above in 1 Kings 11:1 the other time will be posted below.




Pro. 22:14

The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Pro. 23:33

Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.


Now we do need to cover Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites for some background information. This is important and should not be over looked by anyone.



The Edomites

Gen. 36:9

And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:

The Edomites' original country, according to the Tanakh, stretched from the Sinai peninsula as far as Kadesh Barnea. Southward it reached as far as Eilat, which was the seaport of Edom. On the north of Edom was the territory of Moab. The boundary between Moab and Edom was the Wadi Zered. The ancient capital of Edom was Bozrah. According to Genesis, Esau's descendants settled in this land after displacing the Horites. It was also called the land of Seir; Mount Seir appears to have been strongly identified with them and may have been a cultic site. In the time of Amaziah (838 BC), Selah (Petra) was its principal stronghold; Eilat and Ezion-geber its seaports.

The Zidonians

Judges 10:12

The Zidonians also, and the Amalekites, and the Maonites, did oppress you; and ye cried to me, and I delivered you out of their hand.


The inhabitants of Zidon. They were among the nations of Canaan; left to give the Israelites practice in the art of war, Jud 3:3 and colonies of them appear to have spread up into the hill country from Lebanon to Misrephothmaim, Jos 13:4,6 whence in later times they hewed cedar trees for David and Solomon. 1Ch 22:4 They oppressed the Israelites on their first entrance into the country, Jud 10:12 and appear to have lived a luxurious, reckless life. Jud 18:7 They were skillful in hewing timber, 1Ki 5:8 and were employed for this purpose by Solomon. They were idolaters, and worshipped Ashtoreth as their tutelary goddess, 1Ki 11:5,33; 2Ki 23:13 as well as the sun-god Baal from whom their king was named. 1Ki 16:31

The Hittites

EX 3:8

And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.



The term " Hittites " is taken from the KJV translation of the Hebrew Bible, translating " Children of Heth " ( Heth being son of Canaan ). The archaeologists who discovered the Anatolian Hittites in the 19th century initially identified them with these Biblical Hittites. Today the identification of the Biblical peoples with either the Hattusa-based empire or the Neo-Hittite kingdoms is a matter of dispute.

The Hittite kingdom was commonly called the Land of Hatti by the Hittites themselves. The fullest expression is, " The Land of the City of Hattusa ". This description could be applied to either the entire empire, or more narrowly just to the core territory, depending upon context. The word "Hatti" is actually an Akkadogram, rather than Hittite; it is never declined according to Hittite grammar rules. Despite the use of "Hatti", the Hittites should be distinguished from the Hattians, an earlier people who inhabited the same region until the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC, and spoke a non-Indo-European language called Hattic. The Hittites referred to their language as Nesili (or in one case, Kanesili), an adverbial form meaning "in the manner of (Ka)nesa." This presumably reflects a high concentration of Hittite speakers in the ancient city of Kanesh (modern day Kultupe, Turkey). Many of the modern city names in Turkey are first recorded under their Hittite names, such as Sinop and Adana, reflecting the contiguity of modern Anatolia with its ancient past.

2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go into them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.

God told these people not do mess with these people. God told them “ not to go into them, ” God always warns his children before they get into trouble. God does not want to judge his children. Solomon could have turned back to God and gotten rid of these “ strange women, ” but he loved his “ strange women. ” he stuck to them and left God and God's will.

3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.

No real comment needed here. This is very simple to understand.

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

Well it looks like God was right as always. God told Solomon this would happen, and it did. Notice the reference to King David. Now David only had Jew wives. David's heart was perfect with God. Solomon's heart was not, and it was not because of one reason. It was his “ strange wives. ” God told him and he did not turn from his ways. Just as always God will tell you what to do and if you disobey you will pay.

5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.

Well here he goes, just like God said.

6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

Well here he is doing evil in the sight of the Lord. He fell from God's grace. He sinned against God with these “ strange wives. ” back to looking at David and saying that he did not do like his farther King David.

7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.

We here it is getting even worse.

8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.

He did the same for all of his “ strange wives. ”

You can read the rest of I Kings 11 and see God's judgment for the sins of King Solomon. It is indeed a very sad story. The story of God's man falling into sin and away from God. The good King that helped wrote three books of the Bible.


I am married to a lady who is 1/2 Jew 1/2 German by the way. I'm Scots-Irish, 100% white. She looks just like any other white woman, but she is not white, she is half Jew. I did not even know this until she told me. This is how white she looks. It looks like God is opposed to interracial marriage in the O.T. but not opposed to interracial marriage in the N.T. This is how it looks to me so far.

Atlas

Last edited by atlas; 11-10-2008 at 01:52 PM.
  #5  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:50 PM
George's Avatar
George George is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas View Post
Guys,

What do you think about interracial marriage?

Here is some scripture to jump start the topic.

Atlas
Quote:
Nehemiah 13:23-27
23 In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab:
24 And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.
25 And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.
26 Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin.
27 Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?
Read the Scriptures you just quoted. "Race" is not in view!

The issue was Jews (Israelites) and non-Jews (Gentiles). The issue was Jews (God's "chosen people") marrying Pagan (Idol Worshiping) Gentiles. The issue was not about "Race".

According to the Bible mankind descended from three men who were the original progenitors of what we refer to as the three main "races" of mankind: SHEM - The progenitor of the Oriental "race"; HAM - The progenitor of the Negroid "race"; and JAPHETH - The progenitor of the Caucasian "race".

Although the Jews descended from Shem, they were not (strictly speaking) pure "Shemites", and to classify them as a separate "race" would be in error.

Ans so we come to the conclusion that "interracial marriage" is a "misnomer" - IF some Bible thumping bigot is trying to "prove" that because the Jews (Israelites) were FORBIDDEN to marry outside of their nation, that we Christians shouldn't marry someone outside of our "race"!

The world is divided into three kinds of people today: The JEWS; the GENTILES; and the CHURCH [1Corinthians 10:32]. Any other kind of "division" is "divisive" and unscriptural.
  #6  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:51 PM
Brother Tim's Avatar
Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 864
Default

How does "strange women" equate to interracial marriage??

All these verses have shown is the mandate from God that the Hebrew nation was not to intermarry with other nations, and by application that the Godly are not to intermarry with the ungodly.
  #7  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:56 PM
atlas's Avatar
atlas atlas is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 463
Default

Tim,

Look at who the Edomites, Zidonians and Hittites are. They all are other races. You may also want to read the bottom of my 1st post. I was doing some edit work while you were replying.


Atlas
  #8  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:03 PM
Kiwi Christian's Avatar
Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Read the Scriptures you just quoted. "Race" is not in view!

The issue was Jews (Israelites) and non-Jews (Gentiles). The issue was Jews (God's "chosen people") marrying Pagan (Idol Worshiping) Gentiles. The issue was not about "Race".

According to the Bible mankind descended from three men who were the original progenitors of what we refer to as the three main "races" of mankind: SHEM - The progenitor of the Oriental "race"; HAM - The progenitor of the Negroid "race"; and JAPHETH - The progenitor of the Caucasian "race".

Although the Jews descended from Shem, they were not (strictly speaking) pure "Shemites", and to classify them as a separate "race" would be in error.

Ans so we come to the conclusion that "interracial marriage" is a "misnomer" - IF some Bible thumping bigot is trying to "prove" that because the Jews (Israelites) were FORBIDDEN to marry outside of their nation, that we Christians shouldn't marry someone outside of our "race"!

The world is divided into three kinds of people today: The JEWS; the GENTILES; and the CHURCH [1Corinthians 10:32]. Any other kind of "division" is "divisive" and unscriptural.
Good post George, I'm in agreement with you.
  #9  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:09 PM
Brother Tim's Avatar
Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 864
Default

Atlas, "nations" do not equal "races".

If the OT law is for the Jews, did your wife sin by marrying a "strange man"?
  #10  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:11 PM
atlas's Avatar
atlas atlas is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 463
Default

Tim,

Maybe you need to see this part my friend.

Quote:
It looks like God is opposed to interracial marriage in the O.T. but not opposed to interracial marriage in the N.T. This is how it looks to me so far.
Quote:
Atlas, "nations" do not equal "races".
In this case it dose, look who they all came from.

I know I'm under the N.T. and I do not see anything in the Bible opposed to interracial marriage in the N.T.

Why is everyone so uptight today?


Atlas
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com