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  #41  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:11 PM
cpmac
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evstevemd

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Anyway can Cpmac show me single scripture that first resurrection 1thes4:16-17 , 1cor15 and other scriptures that are for Israel and not the church? I know it refers to church (Jews and Gentiles), and not Israel. Can you show ne single scripture from rev1-22 or Daniel 1-12 to justify your claims.
I don't understand your question.

cpmac
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  #42  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:23 PM
cpmac
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evstevemd

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2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Cpmac,
the word "man" is the same used on Mat 8:28
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
so Just tell us how this man of sin[Antichrist] becomes satan?
Help me refresh my memory: Which post are you referring to?

cpmac
  #43  
Old 03-22-2008, 07:59 AM
evstevemd
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Exclamation Here brother!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmac View Post
Evstevemd:



THE Antichrist was, and is, Satan himself. The KJV mostly refers to this Antichrist as a spirit, i.e., "it." But that was the MAIN Antichrist. John says that there appeared many Antichrists in his day, and that is how he knew it was the "last time." I believe that the "Last time" began about the time of the birth of Jesus, and ended after Israel's war with Rome in AD70, the last time, or the end time, or the last days, referring to the end of Israel. What do you think?

His final destruction is yet to come.

We are living in the "Millennial age," at the end of which Satan will be released for a little while, cause a lot of chaos, and then be destroyed by Christ. Does that make sense to you?



Consider the possibility that the Bible, OT and NT, was written by the Jews, for the Jews, and mostly about the Jews. We learn from it, but it was intended largely for Israel.
You say the Lord has not yet descended. I have been taught the same thing by teachers who didn't see Him descend, nor did they not see Him descend- they just don't know. But the Jews might have seen Him, no one else needed to. Remember, when He came the first time, He came to His own people, the Jews. Although God's ultimate purpose was to bring salvation to all mankind, we Gentiles at that time were sort of on the sidelines as far as all the action was concerned.

The resurrection happened, and even our dispensational teachers agree that there is a separate resurrection for the OT Israelites. But they connect that to that future "great tribulation," which is a hoax. I believe that they got it partly right, except that their timing of the tribulation is way off base - by at least 2000 years. The Great Tribulation Christ spoke of in Matthew, Mark, and Luke happened in the past, not in the future.

WE haven't been raptured, but the first century saved Jews were. Paul expected to be raptured, and he was a great deal more knowledgeable than any of us, or any of our dispensational teachers. He was a Jew, part of God's Family. Christ came unto His own, as we see in the Gospel of John. He didn't come to them because they were Jews like Himself - when He came, He wasn't a Jew; He didn't become a Jew until after He got here. He came to them because they were of His own Family, the Family of God. That's why He called them His own.

So, Paul expected to be raptured with many of the other Jews, and Jesus said that all those things the Bible spoke of would happen to that same generation He was speaking to. The Liberals, who missed the point that the rapture could have applied only to the Jews, thought Jesus was mistaken. We needn't think that, just because we didn't see it, it didn't happen. When a tree falls in a forest, and no one is there, I can guarantee that it makes a noise, whether anyone hears it or not.

Want to get unconfused? Avoid commentaries, prophecy teachers, and modern translations. Read the KJV over and over. After ten years or less, the facts will begin to form a picture. It took me twenty-five, but I'm slow.

cpmac

www.tribulationhoax.com
www.biblefacts.net
Here is where I'm reffering
  #44  
Old 03-23-2008, 08:55 AM
cpmac
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Evstevemd:
The man of sin is not a man who becomes Satan. He is Satan all along. He is THE Antichrist. He is against Christ, and always will be. John saw many antichrists in his day. These were the Jews (and possibly Gentiles) who saw Him do all the miracles, heard Him teach, saw Him raise people from the dead, heal the sick, and so forth, yet because of an evil heart, refused to acknowledge that He was the Son of God. They were the many Antichrists. They were the children of disobedience in whom the spirit of iniquity was working. The "spirit of iniquity" was the spirit of Antichrist.

The Antichrist didn't become Satan, he was Satan.
  #45  
Old 03-23-2008, 11:59 AM
evstevemd
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Originally Posted by cpmac View Post
Evstevemd:
The man of sin is not a man who becomes Satan. He is Satan all along. He is THE Antichrist. He is against Christ, and always will be. John saw many antichrists in his day. These were the Jews (and possibly Gentiles) who saw Him do all the miracles, heard Him teach, saw Him raise people from the dead, heal the sick, and so forth, yet because of an evil heart, refused to acknowledge that He was the Son of God. They were the many Antichrists. They were the children of disobedience in whom the spirit of iniquity was working. The "spirit of iniquity" was the spirit of Antichrist.

The Antichrist didn't become Satan, he was Satan.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Cpmac,
the word "man" is the same used on Mat 8:28
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

Just show me where is satan here? Bible says man you say satan I'm confused with your teaching Cpmac. Reconsider your teachings!!
  #46  
Old 03-23-2008, 12:10 PM
jerry
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1 John deals with the spirit of antichrist, which was even in existence in the first century. 2 Thessalonians deals with the man who becomes THE Antichrist, the one-world leader opposed to God who sets himself up as God and institutes the mark of the beast. This is the man that the book of Revelation refers to as the beast. 2 Thessalonians (which refers to him as the son of perdition, the same title Judas had when possessed by Satan) and Revelation 12 also teach/imply that this man will become possessed by Satan at the halfway point of the tribulation (3 1/2 year point), when Satan no longer has access to Heaven to accuse the brethren before God, so he goes on a rampage against all the Jews and those that got saved during the tribulation.
  #47  
Old 03-23-2008, 12:27 PM
evstevemd
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Originally Posted by jerry View Post
1 John deals with the spirit of antichrist, which was even in existence in the first century. 2 Thessalonians deals with the man who becomes THE Antichrist
Amen and Amen brother Jerry
  #48  
Old 03-25-2008, 08:03 AM
cpmac
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Jerry:

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1 John deals with the spirit of antichrist, which was even in existence in the first century. 2 Thessalonians (which refers to him as the son of perdition, the same title Judas had when possessed by Satan) and Revelation 12 also teach/imply that this man will become possessed by Satan at the halfway point of the tribulation (3 1/2 year point), when Satan no longer has access to Heaven to accuse the brethren before God, so he goes on a rampage against all the Jews and those that got saved during the tribulation.

Quote:
2 Thessalonians deals with the man who becomes THE Antichrist, the one-world leader opposed to God who sets himself up as God and institutes the mark of the beast. This is the man that the book of Revelation refers to as the beast.
The reality of a future seven year "Great Tribulation" cannot be proved from the Scriptures. It was made up by dispensationalists to give false substance to a futuristic agenda which on the surface exalts the present-day "Jews," but in fact decieves them into believing that they have a future in a glorified nation without the need to believe in Christ. (That is the worst kind of anti-Semitism.) The name of it was borrowed from Christ's words in Matthew 24, and the length (seven years) was extracted from Daniel's prophecy of Christ's one week ministry on earth, which was cut short by the crucifixion.

"Beast" is mentioned about 155 times in Scripture. In most cases, it refers to an actual animal, although in some prophetic passages it may refer to a kingdom or empire, but not, to my knowledge, a human being.


Quote:
Revelation 12 also teach/imply that this man will become possessed by Satan at the halfway point of the tribulation (3 1/2 year point), when Satan no longer has access to Heaven to accuse the brethren before God, so he goes on a rampage against all the Jews and those that got saved during the tribulation.
I cannot find the man who will become possessed by Satan in Revelation 12. Did you have some other passage in mind?

You are correct that Revelation 12 speaks of Satan having been cast out of heaven, and having no more access. However, I believe that dispensationalism, which teaches that, may have the timing wrong. Notice verse 10, "...a loud voice in saying in heaven, Now is come salvation,and strength, and the kingdom of God, and the power of His Christ." Satan, therefore, was cast out of heaven at the time salvation came, and that was after the cross. The kingdom and Christ's power came shortly after the cross. That will not happen again in the future.

Quote:
all the Jews and those that got saved during the tribulation
The Jews did get saved during the tribulation, but that tribulation was the time of testing and purifying the believers, which ended just before the second tribulation began about 66AD, not the future "seven year Great Tribulation," which is a creation of futurists.

Rev. 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

The "beast" is not a man who becomes "Antichrist." He is the devil himself. Only spirit beings are cast into, and then released from, the bottomless pit.

cpmac
http://www.tribulationhoax.com
www.biblefacts.net
  #49  
Old 03-25-2008, 10:55 AM
evstevemd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmac View Post
Jerry:






The reality of a future seven year "Great Tribulation" cannot be proved from the Scriptures. It was made up by dispensationalists to give false substance to a futuristic agenda which on the surface exalts the present-day "Jews," but in fact decieves them into believing that they have a future in a glorified nation without the need to believe in Christ. (That is the worst kind of anti-Semitism.) The name of it was borrowed from Christ's words in Matthew 24, and the length (seven years) was extracted from Daniel's prophecy of Christ's one week ministry on earth, which was cut short by the crucifixion.

"Beast" is mentioned about 155 times in Scripture. In most cases, it refers to an actual animal, although in some prophetic passages it may refer to a kingdom or empire, but not, to my knowledge, a human being.




I cannot find the man who will become possessed by Satan in Revelation 12. Did you have some other passage in mind?

You are correct that Revelation 12 speaks of Satan having been cast out of heaven, and having no more access. However, I believe that dispensationalism, which teaches that, may have the timing wrong. Notice verse 10, "...a loud voice in saying in heaven, Now is come salvation,and strength, and the kingdom of God, and the power of His Christ." Satan, therefore, was cast out of heaven at the time salvation came, and that was after the cross. The kingdom and Christ's power came shortly after the cross. That will not happen again in the future.



The Jews did get saved during the tribulation, but that tribulation was the time of testing and purifying the believers, which ended just before the second tribulation began about 66AD, not the future "seven year Great Tribulation," which is a creation of futurists.

Rev. 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

The "beast" is not a man who becomes "Antichrist." He is the devil himself. Only spirit beings are cast into, and then released from, the bottomless pit.

cpmac
http://www.tribulationhoax.com
www.biblefacts.net
Hello Cpmac I better end here! You do spritualize everything. I wonder why didn't you spiritualize birth and life of Jesus
  #50  
Old 03-25-2008, 03:59 PM
cpmac
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EvSteveMd:

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"...I better end here! You do spritualize everything. I wonder why didn't you spiritualize birth and life of Jesus"
I've heard the term, "spiritualize," quite often since I became a Christian. I always thought that by spiritualizing, one makes the Bible read something else than what it says. But you seem to have a different view. What, exactly, does it mean to "spiritualize?"

cpmac
http://www.tribulationhoax.com
http://www.biblefacts.net
 

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